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Notice Regarding Immigration Related Threads

Posted on 01/04/2004 7:55:31 PM PST by Lead Moderator

Edited on 01/04/2004 8:43:28 PM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]

Hello everyone.

I've been talking to some long time Freepers via email for several weeks (one in particular). His concern was over the immigration threads and how they turn out on Free Republic.

Many times these threads turn into flame wars. There appears to be a lot of pent up hostility that various factions have developed for each other which ends up coming out, over and over, and the result is that the threads turn into a lot of crap. The moderators get hit with dozens of abuse reports over personal attacks and other silliness. Eventually, it becomes more work than is really worthwhile, and the threads get moved to the backroom so we don't have to deal with it.

This is an OK status quo when it occurs just occasionally. But when it happens frequently, it is not OK. That means that there is a problem.

So we are going to try to fix the problem.

There are sincere people on both sides of the debate who have gotten too into the battle that they are no longer being constructive. The goal will be to help them get back on track.

But we have two groups of people who are completely not sincere.

One group is those who really have no other goal other than to try to fracture conservatives and turn them on each other. One group is those who think that those most concerned with immigration are really just bigots and want to shout them down.

The good news is that both of these groups are very, very small. The bad news is that lots of people are firmly convinced that many of those who are just riled up sincere Freepers are actually part of one of these small groups. In other words, a lot of suspicion of motives has come about.

We're going to have to overcome that.

One of us tried something with a topic which had developed a similar problem, the Creation/Evolution threads. We'll give that type of approach a try for the immigration threads.

So here is what is going to happen. Starting tomorrow, when I see an immigration related thread go up, I am going to post immediately a warning that this would be a very bad thread to engage in insulting or flame baiting. When I see someone ignoring the warning, I'll address them personally telling them to knock it off.

What we need those who are serious about the issue to do is to act responsibly during this time. Engage in debate, without the insults. Post arguments, not ad hominems. Post facts, not innuendos. If you don't like someone, figure out a way to not have it get in the way of your postings. If you want to be disagreeable, do so without being needlessly disrespectful and instigative.

What will happen is, over time with this approach, those who are just trying to stir up crap, and those who are unable to help themselves, will stick out like sore thumbs and will get the axe.

And once that happens, then more direct involvement will not be needed, which I think everyone will agree is the preferred way.

So ping those who you know are interested in debating the topic to this thread, so they can see what is coming.

Thanks


TOPICS: Free Republic
KEYWORDS: adminlectureseries; aliens; bombsawaynomore; flamewars; fr; freerepublic; immigrantlist; immigration; nettequite; playnice
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To: Lead Moderator
I infer from your reply that immigration does bother you.

That's very observant of you.

But to make my position clear, if it wasn't already, it's the titanic, never ending waves of illegal aliens that "bother" me.

And what bothers me even more is watching the Republican party stand gawking, and many time aiding and abetting these millions of criminals.

A government that cannot or will not control it's borders and maintain it's sovereignty from millions people entering illegitimately, will itself eventually become illegitimate.

Bet the rent.

121 posted on 01/05/2004 8:50:57 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Lead Moderator
Ok stoooopid question of the minute from me......where is CHAT or BACKROOM etc etc......? How do I get there from here ? Doom on me ........:o)

Thanks !

As to this thread.........well problem is in large percentage of the loving ,caring, polite debates here at FR ....(IMO) .....it's criminal lawless invasion vs legal immigration . That's what gets feathers ruffled almost every time. I believe it is the inability to see the difference.

I'll try to better control my FRage in the future on such issues...........Stay Safe !

122 posted on 01/05/2004 8:51:20 AM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Squantos
Load up the latest posts page. Over to the top right hand side is a list of forums. News/Activism. General Interest (Chat). Religion. The Smokey Backroom. And so forth. That's how you get there.
123 posted on 01/05/2004 8:53:48 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Lead Moderator
Thank yewwwww !.............Stay Safe !
124 posted on 01/05/2004 8:58:10 AM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Geezerette
I have been in Nashville for 9 years, coming here from California, I see the same things happening here to once peaceful neighborhoods that I saw while I lived in California; illegals come here and set up little communities within established areas and soon the long-time residents move out, the storefronts change, the crime rate increases and the property values plummet.

Other than that, I have little experience in living along the border proper.

125 posted on 01/05/2004 8:59:10 AM PST by Old Professer
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To: JustPiper
I haven't seen any problems on terror threads, but I don't read every post on them, either.

126 posted on 01/05/2004 9:04:36 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Howie Dean in the South !!: http://Richard.Meek.home.comcast.net/IowaRatsLastMealNewDeal.JPG)
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To: WRhine
ROTFL!
127 posted on 01/05/2004 9:35:30 AM PST by Tauzero (The Centre is planning a new urea-pricing policy for fresh investments)
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To: *immigrant_list; A Navy Vet; Lion Den Dan; Free the USA; Libertarianize the GOP; madfly; B4Ranch; ..
ping
128 posted on 01/05/2004 9:37:15 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: Lead Moderator
Outstanding idea -- flame wars are not a benefit IMO!
129 posted on 01/05/2004 9:39:59 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Are you claiming that undocumented immigrants are all despicable thieves or deadbeats?

Not every person who sneaks into the country is a despicable thief or a deadbeat, but every person who sneaks into this country is in fact breaking the law, ergo a criminal. It's a testament to what a great country we are that we deal with this issue as humanely as we do. In most countries, being caught in the country illegally will get you branded a spy and thrown in prison or shot.

130 posted on 01/05/2004 9:41:26 AM PST by jpl
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To: Cultural Jihad
Very well stated in #73!
131 posted on 01/05/2004 9:45:55 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: discostu
Until I moved to Oklahoma with the closing of Kelly AFB, San Antonio, I thought it was a border problem as well. We have the problem here in Oklahoma and our INS is so poorly staffed that a Sheriff near Tulsa offered to rent a bus to drive illegals to the border to deport them.

Not sure there is a State that is not touched by this illegal alien program.
132 posted on 01/05/2004 9:50:26 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: Lead Moderator
I believe your message with respect to communicating in a civilized fashion on this forum for the illegal immigration policy proposed by the present administration is a good one. It is good to be able to discuss how GWB is not upholding the law and the US Constitution by not defending our borders and the proposal to legalize criminals.
133 posted on 01/05/2004 9:51:07 AM PST by Final Authority
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To: PhiKapMom
Not sure there is a State that is not touched by this illegal alien program.

It's all part of the "program".

134 posted on 01/05/2004 9:53:32 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Final Authority
It is good to be able to discuss how GWB is not upholding the law and the US Constitution by not defending our borders and the proposal to legalize criminals.

I agree.

135 posted on 01/05/2004 9:54:51 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Are you claiming that undocumented immigrants are all despicable thieves or deadbeats? That would be an example of bigotry

Worse than that, I believe, a huge number of them are Mexican first. They are extremely racist. They have no desire to assimilate into our culture, learn our language and adopt our values. They are turning our country into a spin off of their defunct country.

I don't have a problem with anyone coming here, if they want to work hard and accept the hardships that come with the territory of being an immigrant. That means learning the language. If I immigrated to Russia tomorrow I would expect to have to learn Russian and live as a Russian.

In fact I have lived in foreign countries, I never expected them to speak English to me. I learned the language and went through the painful processes of doing things in a foreign language I could barely understand. And I had no intention of actually becoming a citizen and staying in the country. I didn't litter the streets and associate myself only with American groups or other American's. I respected their laws and culture.

We are fragmenting our society into different groups with different protections and language. A huge, probably close to half, by the time this is said and done, demographic our our society is going to see itself as Mexican first and speak another language. They are completely ignorant of our form of government, have no desire to learn and are easily manipulated due to thier position in our society.

I picked up a free publication at our local library Friday called Barriozona. It was an entire publication devoted to hispanic empowerment, activism and basically socialism. One article was based on the "hero" Che Gueverra. And it was only one of three such free publications available in the library that day.

How can anyone think this is possibly going to end well?

136 posted on 01/05/2004 9:59:15 AM PST by riri
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To: gubamyster
This sounds good to me, I'm tired of being referred to as a bigot, racist, or xenophobe just because I want the illegals to be forced to comply with the law.
137 posted on 01/05/2004 9:59:41 AM PST by Bikers4Bush (Bush and Co. are quickly convincing me that the Constitution Party is our only hope.)
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To: Lead Moderator
I'm glad to know that my encyclopedic knowledge of the most vicious, disgusting, racial slurs is still welcome and appreciated here.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

138 posted on 01/05/2004 10:02:20 AM PST by End Times Sentinel ("Fire can be our servant, whether it's toasting S'mores or raining down on Charlie" –Ppl Skinner)
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To: PhiKapMom
The smart illegals that actually want to stay (as opposed to the border hoppers doing day labor) head to the interior of the country where there is no border patrol and the INS is merely a technicality. That's why the Sanctuary guys took their "refuges" to Illinois, who's gonna look for illegal Guatamalans there.
139 posted on 01/05/2004 10:10:00 AM PST by discostu (stay alert, trust no one, keep your laser handy)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
I agree with you -- it is part of the program to disperse them around all over the Country. I can remember driving down I-10 from Boerne to San Antonio and seeing a pickup truck stop on the side of the road and see these people fleeing up the hills and you could bet that Border Patrol was in the area. If they caught them, they would send them back across the border and several days later, they would be back in San Antonio.

The funniest story I heard was when several illegals got off the train outside the fence at Kelly AFB, went over the fence, and stopped a car to get a ride. It was the Base Commander's car -- didn't take long for those illegals to get a one-way ticket back to Mexico. Even the usual people who condoned the illegals were silent on that one! Normally it took awhile to get people deported -- not this time -- it was immediate.

140 posted on 01/05/2004 10:25:48 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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