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Zoroastrians Fight Extinction
VOANews ^ | 12/23/03 | VOANews

Posted on 12/23/2003 10:01:12 PM PST by freedom44

The opening bars of Richard Strauss’ composition “Thus Spoke Zarathustra” became famous as the theme for Stanle Kubrick’s 1968 movie “2001: A Space Odyssey.” But apart from academics and some 300-thosuand believers, few people know much about ancient Iranian prophet Zarathustra and his teaching.

“Yet only one thousand years ago, millions, millions espoused Zarathustra’s monotheistic percepts in nations which stretched from (the ancient Chinese city of) Sian (western China) to the Eastern China across central Asia, northern India, Iran, Asia Minor, Mesopotamia up Greece in the west and Arabia, north Africa and Ethiopia in the south,” says Adi Davar, a board member of the World Zoroastrian Organization. Mr. Davar spoke at a recent seminar on Zoroastrian religion at the Library of Congress in Washington.

Zoroastrianism is based on the revelations of the Persian prophet Zarathustra, or Zoroaster in Greek. He taught that the world and everything in it was created by a Wise Lord, or Ahura Mazda. Before Zarathustra, Persians believed in multiple deities, as did most nomadic tribes at the time.

Stanley Isler, chairman of Iranian studies at Yale University, says Zarathustra was very impressed with nature and its ability for cyclical renewal. He believed repetition was the basis of knowledge, and people could learn everything from nature.

“Surely, only a being of great power and wisdom was capable of fashioning the element of the cosmos and equally capable of creating the principle of truth that maintain their eternal design and rhythms,” cites Professor Isler.

Internationally renowned conductor Zubin Mehta is a Parsi from Bombay. Creator Ahura Mazda is symbolized by light and fire, nature’s sources of life and energy. That is why Zoroastrians usually pray before a source of light, and an urn containing fire is a prominent feature of their place of worship. The good and wise lord Ahura Mazda is opposed by dark forces of evil. Zoroastrians believe truth is the source of all good and must be pursued in order to fight deceit, the source of evil. Since humans are created by a wise lord, they have an innate ability to discern good from evil. Zarathustra preaches three basic virtues: good thoughts, good words and good deeds. He says: "Happiness unto him who gives happiness unto others.” Thus Zoroastrians value education and philanthropy. Lying, or deceit, represents a violation of basic Zoroastrian beliefs.

Cleanliness of the body as well as of the spirit is also very important. Dead and decaying bodies are considered extremely impure and so they must not contaminate water, air or earth, which are sources of life. Traditionally, Zoroastrians do not bury or burn dead bodies or throw them into water, but expose them to vultures. However, there is less emphasis on religious rites than there is on lifestyle choices.

Marriage is a lifelong commitment, often postponed for the sake of education. Inter-faith marriages and conversions have long been avoided, contributing to the decline in population. The conquest of Persia and spread of Islam, which started in the 7th century, dealt the first serious blow to Zoroastrians.

Relief depicting Persian King Darius, Iran. No one knows exactly when Zarathustra lived, but his origins are traditionally placed in the 6th century B.C. in the area of what is today north-eastern Iran. This would make him a contemporary of the Persians kings Cyrus or Darius. Many scholars think he lived earlier than that. Jehan Bagli, president of the North American Zoroastrian Council, says Zarathustra’s teachings were already widespread by that time.

“Nowhere in these records do we find the mention of prophet Zarathustra,” says Mr. Bagli. “If the prophet was born 569 BCE and lived, as we know from the tradition, a little over 77 years, he would be contemporary with Darius the Great. It is inconceivable that the founder of the first monotheistic faith, who lived during the same time as these renowned monarchs, whose religion was spread across their vast empire and who was a mentor of the father of Darius, be so trivially overlooked.” Mr Bagli adds: “These circumstances certainly invalidate the traditional date.”

Scholars say historic records of Zarathustra’s life may have been destroyed during two major invasions of Persia: one by Alexander the Great in 4th century B.C. and the other by Islamic tribes in the 7th century A.D. On both occasions fire temples and religious texts were burnt and many priests killed.

But there is evidence that the Avesta, the Zoroastrian equivalent of the Bible, contains Zarathustra’s original thoughts. Stanley Isler says the prophet’s hymns to God, or “gathas,” reveal much about his life and time: “He tells us that he was a priest and a master of sacred words, a manthran – someone who has power over the mantras, a word that’s familiar to many. Yet, Zarathustra goes on to say he was rejected from his tribe and his community and driven from his land, forcing him to wander far and wide under great hardship and despair until finally he was accepted by a noble prince named Vishtaspa, who became his patron and ally.”

Professor Isler notes the hymns also explain why the prophet’s own tribe exiled him. It was not only because he preached monotheism: “He bitterly complains that evil rulers attacked just and innocent people, that the rich robbed the poor, that judges produced false decisions in order to aid their benefactors. And Zarathustra goes on to say that fury and violence terrorized the peoples on all fronts and that everywhere deceit and deception seemed to hold the upper hand.”

The holy book also contains Zoroastrian prayers, rules of law and rituals. Until the 9th century AD, the Avesta was probably transmitted orally and modified along the way. Professor Isler says this makes it hard to discern truth from myth about the prophet. The 10th century persecution of Zoroastrians in Persia forced many either to convert or seek another place to live. A significant group settled in north-western India where they became known as Parsis, meaning Persians.

For a while, Parsis were growing in number and power. The city of Bombay became the center of Zoroastrianism, somewhat like Rome in the Catholic Church. But in the second half of the 20th century, the population of the Parsi-Zoroastrians fell by one third, from a peak of 114,000 in 1941 to 76,000 in 1991. In recent decades, Zoroastrians worldwide began forming local and international organizations and events to help fight their extinction. Adi Davar helped form one of these in 1980.

“The World Zoroastrian Organization is an international organization of the global community of some 300-thousand Zoroastrians,” says Mr. Davar and adds: “Some 40-thousand of them live in North America and about a thousand in this metropolitan area.”

Parsi children in Bombay. Zoroastrian organizations prevailed upon UNESCO, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization to proclaim the year 2003 as the 3000th Anniversary of Zoroastrianism. More attention is paid to young people who may be able to pass on their religion and culture to following generations. The Third World Zoroastrian Youth Congress is to take place in Pune, India, from December 27 to December 31.

Conversion, once rejected by the Zoroastrian faith, is now believed to be legitimate and indeed necessary by some adherents, who also approve marriage with members of other faiths.

Scholars have acknowledged the contribution of this ancient Persian faith to the world’s religions. Zoroastrians say their prophet’s teachings are just as relevant today since deceit, violence and oppression are as prevalent as they were thousands of years ago.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: archaeology; faith; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; iran; mrirangen; wethreekings; zoroaster; zoroastrianism
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To: SedVictaCatoni
have been logistically and culturally extremely difficult.

Not really, the Romans did pick up GReek thoughts (the Roman pantheon become little more than the Greek pantheon renamed). What could have happened was that Roman though became alliend to a far more ancient source -- Persian (preceeding the Greek by at least 2000 years), so we would have been a Judeo-Christian-Persian society.
81 posted on 12/28/2003 2:57:37 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: ASA Vet
If it wasn't for their few supernatural beliefs buddhism would be more a philosophy than a religion.

That depends on which sect of Buddhism you follow. The oldest -- the hinayana (the little vehicle) as practised by the Buddha and by the Sri Lankans holds the Buddha as a holy man but not a God and is atheistic in outlook. The others like Tibetan lamais, Zen etc. have taken Buddhist philosophy and mixed it with local relgiions like adding Buddha to the Hindu/chinese pantheon. The Tibetan lamaism in particular seems to incorporate demons etc. within the religious thinking -- though I'm not sure what part they play I don't think they're worshipped, but these are not classic Buddhism.
82 posted on 12/28/2003 3:00:31 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The story of creation (oops I see a big storm over this, but let's push throw in any case) isn't to be taken verbatim. By that reasoning, the world was created in 4004 B.C. Genesis is God's way of explaining the complex to simple people. Try explaining cosmology to even someone in the 18th centruy and you'd have made their head spin.
83 posted on 12/28/2003 3:02:41 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: Cronos
The Roman Empire could have spread further east -- by becoming more dualist and federalist

In ancient times, a state which had "federated" was a state which had simply thrown off some independent peripheral kingdoms. What reason would a quasi-autonomous Persian "federal province" have had to consider itself part of the Roman Empire?

Not really, the Romans did pick up GReek thoughts (the Roman pantheon become little more than the Greek pantheon renamed).

This is a common misconception. Writers in late antiquity made some attempts to theorize that some specific Roman deities were similar in nature to specific Greek deities. This is not the same thing as saying that the Romans merely worshiped Greek gods with different names. Most beings which the Romans venerated had no Greek "equivalent", and probably the majority of Greek religions never spread to Rome.

hat could have happened was that Roman though became alliend to a far more ancient source -- Persian (preceeding the Greek by at least 2000 years), so we would have been a Judeo-Christian-Persian society.

You've overlooking the enormous cultural barriers between the Mediterranean world and the Persian world. Despite the Hellenization of Persia, Romans still had immeasurably deeper cultural connections with the Greeks than they ever could with Persian thought and culture. Roman contacts with Greek society dated all the way back to Rome's first encounters with the Greek colonies in Magna Graecia.

84 posted on 12/28/2003 6:34:29 AM PST by SedVictaCatoni (You keep nasty chips.)
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Comment #85 Removed by Moderator

To: Cronos
Compare the babe in the bulrushes story to the story of Karna in the Mahabharat - he was born to his mother before marriage, a great shame, so she placed him in a basket or other small boatlike thing in the river, so he could be found by others. The Mahabharat describes the Kurukshetra War, which occured more than 3,000 BC.
86 posted on 12/28/2003 8:29:31 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: ASA Vet
If it wasn't for their few supernatural beliefs buddhism would be more a philosophy than a religion.

I agree - since Buddhism rejects not only the very concept of a Supreme Being but the existence of an eternal individual soul, it isn't a religion. But a very interesting fact is that Buddha is listed in the Puranas (which pre-date Buddha's birth) as an incarnation of God, so in Hinduism Buddha is accepted as an incarnation of the Supreme Godhead.

Buddha is explained specifically in the Bhagavat Purana to have the purpose of misleading certain people who were using the Vedas as an excuse for sacrificing animals into rejecting the Vedas and following him. His main teaching was therefore ahimsa (do no harm to anyone) and by following him, they were following God, even though he taught that there is no God.

87 posted on 12/28/2003 8:36:46 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Skywalk
Actually, the Vedas of India are in essence monotheistic, and they pre-date any other written literature, having been in written existence since roughly 3000 BC. Many demigods are described but they are very clearly sub-gods, or servants of the one Supreme Godhead. In fact, the Bhagavad Gita explains that only those with distorted minds and desires worship the many demigods for material rewards, and that people who want their eternal benefit worship the Supreme Person.
88 posted on 12/28/2003 8:42:29 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Cronos
That depends on which sect of Buddhism you follow.

I don't follow any of them, but my wives have claimed to be buddhists.

89 posted on 12/28/2003 12:40:39 PM PST by ASA Vet (Having achieved Nibbana, what can I do next?)
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To: Cronos
You are right on with all your points in that post. I should have said: "Angra Mainyu is a great name for an evil God." Rather than 'evil spirit'.

You really know your stuff.

Do you think that maybe some day once all the troubles are over that we will be able to visit Northern Iran and Iraq? I'm dying to see that part of the world... In addition the The Book of Job, have you studied the parallels between Zoroastrian lore and The Book of Genesis in particular--in relation to the 'daevas' and the temptation of Eve in the Garder?

90 posted on 12/28/2003 12:41:30 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith (The Guns of Brixton)
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To: Cronos
a reformer like Gautama Buddha (strange how's he's always potrayed as Chinese when he was Indian)

Speaking of which, have you ever seen a skinny Buddha?

91 posted on 12/28/2003 9:26:55 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Speaking of which, have you ever seen a skinny Buddha?

Actually that's another misrepresentation -- Chinese in origin. If you look at the Buddhas of South East Asia or India, the Buddha is slim and though not as emaciated as the Jain Mahaviras, is never fat. In fact, that would be against hte middle path. Most likely the Chinese depiction is based on pre-Buddhist chinese Gods.
92 posted on 12/29/2003 12:38:08 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: chookter
Thank you!

Got to admit, got some Parsi friends and am 1/8th Irani (great-grandma). I think Z lore is quite important as most likely God planned it all out -- you notice that Christ is born of the Judaic race yet is heralded by Irani magi? Also Buddha's early teaching (removing all the later God's added) is a sign of man's reaching to God, so perhaps he was a pointer (I don't believe the stories that Christ went to India in his 20s, but Buddhism in those times did spread right up to Palestine.)
93 posted on 12/29/2003 12:42:22 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: SedVictaCatoni
Yeah, most of those fantasies of Roman power spreading east are just that, fantasies, they didn't happen so that's it. What I mean federated is similar to what the Romans tried to do under Domitian -- have two Imperators.
94 posted on 12/29/2003 12:43:46 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: SedVictaCatoni
Most beings which the Romans venerated had no Greek "equivalent", and probably the majority of Greek religions never spread to Rome.

Well, what I have studied is that Roman gods like Jupiter etc. ARE Roman in ORIGIN but took on the aspect of Greek gods when the Roman presence spread south to Neapoli (Naples).
95 posted on 12/29/2003 12:45:02 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: SedVictaCatoni
Rome's ties are with Greece, but Greece took a lot of cues from Egyptian and Persian cultures via the Minoan as well as directly.
96 posted on 12/29/2003 12:46:05 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: little jeremiah
The Mahabharat

Oh, now you're talking about some seriously ancient stuff. The Mahabharat is supposed to be dated back to, as you correctly point out, before 3000 B.C.

I would disagree with the idea of the Aryan invasion of India, because that's was just Max Mueller's theory, with no proof at all. The bodies found in Mohenjo-daro and Harappa (Indus valley cities) are not war victims (this was proven) but buried as we'd expect peopel to be buried during peace times. Most likely there was some ecological disaster and the peoples moved further east to the Ganges and southern India which had more plentiful lakes. The Aryans most likely would have originated in Central Asia-north easter Iran-north western India. The war Gods and their battles may very well have been two related families fighting each other.

Hey, wait a minute, remember what I was saying about the two families of gods (the aesir and the Vanir in the Nordic tales, the Asuras/Ahuras and the Devas/Daevas in the Indic-Irani tales)? Compare this with the sotry in the Mahabharat which deals with two related families fueding, in fact cousins fighting. Since most of the myths are ancient peoples ways of keeping history alive, could it not be conjectured (yes conjecture, no real way of proving it) that around 4000 to 3000 B.C. (or most likely a lot earlier), the Aryans split into two families who warred with each other -- this would explain the stories in the Vedas about Indra, the war god destroying the land of hte Dasyus (Iranic peoples).

The two families would have been elevated to gods. Then later on, the different worshipper had a sectarian war and moved east/west to india/iran. A more primitive group could have moved north west to become the Germanic/Slavic/Celtic/Italic peoples of Europe. THe primitve group would have venerated both families while the more advanced would have considered one family greater.

The Aryans would have moved into Dravidian cities in the Indus valley like how the SEmitic peoples moved into Sumerian cities -- not really by war, but just that the Dravidians.Sumerians were city folk and the Aryans/SEmites were nomads. When the cities could not sustain their people, the people left them and probably intermingled with the Aryans adopting their languages, leaving only the Brahuis to be dravidic speaking people in Baluchistan.

The Central Asian origin of the Aryans makes sense to me, with their later traces being erased by the movements of Turkic peoples into Central Asia.

A very good example of the intermingling of language groups is found in Afghanistan where the Hazaras (literlly thousanders) are Mongol like, supposed descendents of Genghis Khan's hordes, while the Tajik are Irani, the Pashtuns Indic and the Uzbeks, Turkmen, Kazakhs are Turkic.
97 posted on 12/29/2003 1:00:32 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: Cronos
And of course, Alexander did leave folks over there, so they would be Greek blood in the tajiks and Pashtuns (witness some folks with Grey-green eyes and the inter-tribal warfares).
98 posted on 12/29/2003 1:01:50 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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To: Cronos
Another way of understanding, for instance, the Mahabharat would be to take it at face value - i.e. literally. In that case, the warring clans and alliances of the Kurukshetra War did not evolve (in understanding) into devas and asuras, but in addition to the alliances described, higher beings called devas and asuras exist simultaneously.
99 posted on 12/29/2003 1:04:43 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah
Higher beings exist simultaneously? I kind of disagree with that as most primitive gods do tend to have been originally men elevated to divine status because of their deeds (think Gilgamesh, Heracles etc.). Indra must have been a chieftain or a line of chieftains taking that name, similar to what happened in Egypt with the house of Osiris and Amun-Ra.

Similarly Rama of the Ramayana is quite clearly a human hero, elevated to Godhood because of his deeds. We see the same thing happening to the Buddha even though he insisted that he was not divine.
100 posted on 12/29/2003 1:36:42 AM PST by Cronos (W2004!)
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