Vanity: An Open Message to the Republican Party Cheerleaders on this Forum...

12-10-03 | Vanity

[ambrose]

Vanity:

An Open Message to the Republican Party Cheerleaders on this Forum...

[Consort]

The conservative solution to the problem of older folks or any folks who are incapable of providing for their own needs due to circumstance beyond their control is to provide for them.

What about the ones who are incapable of providing for their own needs due to bad life-style choices — choices that were not beyond their control? How do you differentiate?

[Sabertooth]

Beyond that, any ntion that Torie and his ilk when old
will get any sort of government subsidies is quite nausiating.

It's "bilk."

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

There you go assuming again!

Those who know the least complain the most about what they fail to understand.

Obviously you do not have very much knowlege of how our government works. It works like this; Every session, congress meets to present the current budget. With that given amount, the funds are distributed throughout the proposed spending allotments. The funds are distributed by a matter of priority. Lower level spending bills that are not satisfied under the current budget allotment are postponed until the next session for further review.

Unlike the past, where any and all spending bills were satisfied without prejudice, our current government has become more fiscally responsible.

You should study it more often before blowing so much heat!

[Romulus]

Thanks for that thoughtful reply, but IMO in defining the problem in terms of who's controlling the party you implicitly accept the notion that the Party is a permanent fixture of the political landscape. But I put it to you that you're confusing the container with the thing contained: the Party exists only so long as it's deemed useful by those whose support it solicits. It's nowhere written that parties must survive in perpetuity, with factions contending for their control. This is how apparatchiks think, but the rest of us understand that a party is a temporary convenience that can wither and disappear, and sometimes should.

Perhaps GOP operatives would like the right wing to hang around and agitate for more control. It's a calculated gamble on their part -- being professional political creatures, their hope and yours is not so much philosophical as practical: how to survive and prosper past the next election. As private citizens, such priorities are of scant interest to ordinary conservatives. We're not out in search of power -- just looking for someone to protect us from it.

It seems that power-seeking technocrats have subordinated their constitutional role as citizens, to a professional concern, a book-clearing calculus of locating and efficiently pairing off the buyers and sellers of political power, while taking care to retain the standard commission for themselves.

[Mo1]

I do think he is fiscally conservative though - just look at the Vermont records. I also know that he hasn't squashed anyones 2nd Amendment rights there.

The reason Vermont isn't in the red is because Dean taxed folks through the roof

As far as being rural, Vermont is a pretty rural state - and he probably has a feel for what the needs of that community is. He's also travelled and lived with very rural people in other countries.

And I believe new homes are on a rise because families are taxed through the roof and have to sell their land

That's what has happened here in PA .. I've lost count on how many farms here have turned into new developments

On a local New Hampshire political show, I heard him say that he is proud of his background and not going to make any excuses about the fact that his parents worked hard and were well-off.

Just one problem .. Dean's father worked for one of the big corporations that he now condems

I can't believe you are seriously thinking of voting for Dean

[yonif]

I hope that is the case, but I have a strong belief that the strength of the government will continue to increase with every administration, no matter if it is a democrat or republican and no matter who is the majority in Congress. The fact is, Americans are beginning to ask more of their government, and this will be the type of constituents the people in Congress will be representing. Once again, I hope this does not happen.

[jwalsh07]

The stock answer is that you can find it in the preamble.

Now on to conserving morality. In a moral sense, should we help those that can not help themselves?

[A CA Guy]

I think the problem here has several layers.

#1 If Bush didn't sign this, or Republicans didn't go for this, all of them would be subjected to being perceived as being attached to money for influence in ads from Democrats for the rest of their political careers. This was blackmail, no doubt.

#2 Most expected the courts to never go for this.

#3 The "Court" and judges are the main issue here.
We need to get conservatives/Republicans elected to get the needed super majorities, then to appoint Federal judges and await any judges that step down.
If we get to the point where we can elect judges, then we can later be more bold and bring forth different, new and more reasonable campaign financing laws and have a court more likely to interpret law properly instead of make it up.

I know this gets dull, but yet again it ends up being getting what we need and want in steps.

What ever we can do to get super majorities in Congress should be done this election.
We must also remember to grow conservatism still at the grass root level. If we don't do that, the future is null and void and will be at best a full blown European styled socialist country.

[futureceo31]

You really think its that simple getting rid of the department of education. Look at what Newt did in 1994 and how he was demonized and basically run out of congress. He read the reagan revolution into congress but was ultimately hounded out and still the boogyman for the Dims...
We are meek and humble when it comes to voicing our opinions because we are labeled as child starvers, senior killers, fundamental preacher follower nuts (quote from Dean) and the list goes on and on... Being the president is all about compromising and it takes time to change things especially when you have the media which is the voice of the democratic party firmly aligned against us. Thank god for talk radio and the Internet which is slowly paving the way for conservatives to have a voice in the forum of public opinion and start swaying independents and independent thinking democrats to our side.. but it is going to take time....

[Torie]

I knew you wouldn't like it. But some communitarian instincts from a "conservative" perspective (no man is an island) is hopelessly European. The American tradition is that the rugged individual can tame the land, and just do it. It also helps have been exposed to the Catholic tradition I think. I swam a bit up stream as one without that tradition from the Right (I was once really there, honestly), to get there.

[yonif]

You should study it more often before blowing so much heat!

I guess what I am trying to say is I am making general comments about the government in relation to the passage of this bill. We must face the fact that the size of the government will continue to increase every year and the services it provides will increase as well.

[futureceo31]

Just my 2 cents but I think you are wasting your time.. Looks like we have Dean's Internet machine infiltrating our forums.

[jwalsh07]

What about the ones who are incapable of providing for their own needs due to bad life-style choices — choices that were not beyond their control?

How do you differentiate?

Perhaps we can't but we can draw lines between able bodied and not able bodied.

[yonif]

It isn't simple to reverse, just like I said. I said that Americans with every year that passes expect more from our government in terms of protections (economic) and services. In addition, the generation which will be providing the next leaders of this country are growing up in that same montra. Government power and size is on the rise, and some things it provides today we would have never imagined 50 years ago.

[Mo1]

Yea I know , you're right

[futureceo31]

yes.. I agree with you... But then, reading your handle, I think you would know what I mean by my thinking that we do not have 50 years left.

[jwalsh07]

I swam a bit up stream as one without that tradition from the Right (I was once really there, honestly), to get there.

Oh yeah, no denying it, my opinions and my life are informed by my Catholicism although I spent a good deal of time downstream from that ideal.

Are you saying that you were once a right libertarian?

[AppauledAtAppeasementConservat]

"...but I have a strong belief that the strength of the government will continue to increase with every administration, no matter if it is a democrat or republican and no matter who is the majority in Congress..."

I think so too but it is about controlling the growth. I think the only way negative growth in government most likely could only occur is with a decrease in population...a huge decrease. Not much to cause that short of an un-godly catastrophe.

Best thing to hope for is greater efficiency in gov't to control it's growth.

[Born in a Rage]

I believe it. My nephew has ADD combined with some other thing - the kid is 14 and he has a personal assistant/tutor who goes to all his classes and collects his homework assignments for him because he might 'forget'. He also has two sets of books so he doesn't have to carry them home and at one point he was being transferred to some other school a half hour away on a bus by himself every day. To top that off, his 'assistant' yelled at the principal for talking to fast to him at a meeting between him, his mother, the principal and the assistant. It's crazy, it really is :-(

[Moonman62]

OK, but what about GWB's spending record since being president.