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Federal Lawmakers Investigating Army-issue Gun Lube Problems (Part 2)
abclocal.go.com/ ^ | November 26, 2003 | Jim Hoffer

Posted on 11/26/2003 9:58:01 PM PST by B4Ranch

(New York-WABC, November 26, 2003) — Lawmakers on Capitol Hill are vowing to find out why the military is issuing a gun lubricant that many soldiers claim causes their weapons to jam, and endangers their lives.

It's a problem Eyewitness News first told you about last week.

The Investigators' Jim Hoffer broke the story and joins us now with more on what is being done to fix the problem.

One lawmaker is calling for public hearings after seeing our investigation, and a U.S. senator is demanding answers from the Pentagon.

They want to know why, as we first reported, soldiers were blocked from getting a rival weapons lubricant when the Army's own reports suggest growing problems with the military-issued lube.

Since the invasion into Iraq, U.S. soldiers have struggled to keep their guns from jamming. Our investigation found part of the problem could be the military-issued lubricant generically known as CLP.

This internal Army report claims soldiers found that, "CLP was not a good choice for weapons' maintenance," claiming "it attracted sand to the guns."

Sgt. Jason Szustwal, Reserve Marines: "If you keep the sand out of it you're good to go." Jim Hoffer: "And one way to keep it out is to not use the lubricant?" Sgt. Jason Szustwal: "Correct, correct."

U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York: "It's extremely troubling."

After seeing our report, New York's senior senator fired off a letter to a Pentagon general, demanding to know why it continues to issue a lubricant that may be causing soldiers' guns to jam.

U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer: "The fact that it may have been this lubricant which the armed forces stubbornly clings to when there's a better product available is really troubling because it's not just pride it's life, it's loss of life.". Our investigation revealed that just days into the war, the military cancelled over $117,000 in troop orders for a rival gun lubricant, called Militec.

Jim Hoffer: "This is dozens of orders for your product?

Russ Logan, Militec: "Orders from units in the field that were getting ready for war and felt that they needed this to do their job, and they were denied them at the last minute."

For seven months, the military blocked all orders for Militec, leaving soldiers to buy it on their own or ask their families to ship it to them. That's what this New York father had to do.

Art Couchman, Soldier's Father: "The soldiers over there are saying this is a good product and its been battle proven why not make it easier for them to get this product?"

Long Island Congressman Steve Israel, a member of the Armed Services Committee, is calling for hearings to determine whether, "An ineffective gun lubricant was given to American troops."

U.S. Rep. Steve Israel, D-New York: "We need to ask how this happened, why it happened, and more importantly, how we're going to stop it from happening ever again."

The Army says Militec is again available to troops. In a statement to Eyewitness News, the Army says that because of, "Mixed reports on the performance ... of lubricants" it plans to "rapidly evaluate ... and test" various products for possible future use.

Daniella Brian, Project on Government Oversight: "What seems to be missing here is leadership."

A watchdog group that's done its own military investigations says public pressure is the only way to get the military to change.

Daniella Brian: "They've never been able to really recognize a mistake and fix it internally, it always seem to take pressure from the outside."

Change could already be happening in response to our investigation. We've learned that the Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers, has begun an investigation into the military-issued lubricant and what role it might have in the rash of weapons jammings.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Alabama; US: Alaska; US: Arizona; US: Arkansas; US: California; US: Colorado; US: Connecticut; US: Delaware; US: District of Columbia; US: Florida; US: Georgia; US: Hawaii; US: Idaho; US: Illinois; US: Indiana; US: Iowa; US: Kansas; US: Kentucky; US: Louisiana; US: Maine; US: Maryland; US: Massachusetts; US: Michigan; US: Minnesota; US: Mississippi; US: Missouri; US: Montana; US: Nebraska; US: Nevada; US: New Hampshire; US: New Jersey; US: New Mexico; US: New York; US: North Carolina; US: North Dakota; US: Ohio; US: Oklahoma; US: Oregon; US: Pennsylvania; US: Rhode Island; US: South Carolina; US: South Dakota; US: Tennessee; US: Texas; US: Utah; US: Vermont; US: Virginia; US: Washington; US: West Virginia; US: Wisconsin; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: breakfree; clp; firearms; iraq; m16; militec; militec1
I'll bet Gil Perkins, Bruce Stout, Mike Padgett and Ernest Jeniolionis are wishing this letter was never written!
stop filling Army requisitions for Militec-1 lubricant immediately.

It looks like some elected officials may have just decided that giving our troops permission to use a dry lube are important to all American people and of course, their re-election. Do you think that may be the reason for the investigation?

Weapons Lube Issued by Army May be Costing Lives in Iraq(Part 1)

I talked with Brad Giordani by phone the other day to ask what affect the first Eyewitness News report had and he told me that multiple case military orders, (US and overseas) are pouring in again now that MILITEC-1 is once again available to the troops. He said it didn't take long for the good news to reach battalion commanders.

1 posted on 11/26/2003 9:58:02 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: 185JHP; Son of Liberty, Part 2; archy; FreedomCalls; Ernest_at_the_Beach; river rat; chookter; ...
a ping to the good news.
2 posted on 11/26/2003 9:58:55 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
These are the same clueless bozos that gave us the gamma goat in the 80's. That 6-wheeled monstrosity they bought from Chrysler to bail them out.

Military procurement agencies research all the products, then they choose the lowest bidder with the product that is least compatible with its intended use.
3 posted on 11/26/2003 10:10:32 PM PST by sandpit
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To: sandpit
Its not just oil, vehicles, or guns. Even your anthrax vaccine went to the lowest bidder...in fact...they were the only bidder. And when they failed their federal inspection (by the food and drug administration no less!)...they ran off to the Pentagon and demanded a cash bailout to pay for fixes. And did the Pentagon start to question the purity or the safe levels of the vaccine? NO. They simply handed out millions and have recently started back up production. Same old story.
4 posted on 11/26/2003 10:16:22 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: sandpit
MILITEC-1 doesn't meet the 12 year preservative because it's not a grease and so the folks at Picatinny weren't happy when the Special Forces wanted it for Desert Storm, but what are you going to do when they ask for something? Refuse and get blamed for something going wrong or just give it to them. Now there's about 120 military and federal agencies using it, God only knows how many civilian do.

The best part to me was when they couldn't buy it, Brad would still send free samples to any Unit that requested them.

5 posted on 11/26/2003 10:20:48 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
Even mo' bettuh?........TETRA GUN!
6 posted on 11/26/2003 10:27:31 PM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: B4Ranch
A post a week or so back seemed to caution that Militec is a great lubricant, but NOT a cleaner and NOT a preservative-- two attributes credited to CLP. If Militec is used properly in Iraq/afghanistan, it may result in fewer jams. But it's not a proven replacement for CLP, yet.

I ordered a 1/2 oz. sample from Militec, and will try some soon. The little bottle got there in 2 days.

7 posted on 11/26/2003 10:49:10 PM PST by BushMeister
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To: BushMeister
Miltec is pretty good. CLP was always crap - I used to buy my own Hoppe's and Tetra for my issue weapons. Hell, I used to buy my shoe polish (Lincoln) mail order - kiwi and that crayon-type crud they used to use.....

The low-bidder process employed by our government uses a "mimimal standards" basis: the cheapest bidder that met the minimum standard gets the business.
8 posted on 11/26/2003 11:37:22 PM PST by clee1 (Where's the beef???)
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To: sandpit
I rode in a gammagoat a few times. Loud and slow.
9 posted on 11/27/2003 9:49:29 AM PST by Bogey78O (No! Don't throw me in the briar patch!!!!!)
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To: B4Ranch
Good news, indeed. Thanks B4. (I've had good results from FP-10. But I haven't been in the ME environment.)
10 posted on 11/27/2003 1:45:44 PM PST by 185JHP ( Is a Deanbacle what they're gonna get?)
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To: BushMeister; BCR #226
I use Hoppes for cleaning and Tetra for lubricating & preserving all of my firearms. Well, ok, my gunsmith husband does. :) Our guns - everything from revolvers to full-auto's - all work just fine.
11 posted on 11/28/2003 10:44:30 AM PST by gieriscm (The AW ban sunsets on 09/13/2004)
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To: gieriscm; Matthew James; B4Ranch; blam; river rat; Travis McGee; Eaker; Shooter 2.5; dcbryan
Throw it in the jacuzzi, drag it thru the kids sand box and then run a basic load and 2 days resupply through em in 20 minutes and get back to me on that if ya will.........:o)

Kidding aside I understand what your saying . Whats good in combat is not normally needed in my range / competition , self defense or hunting firearms. Hoppes #9, some sweets 7.62 and a little T25 here and there do me fine in retirement. I just received my "free" ...FREE.....samples from Waldorf MD this afternoon.

I have to tell folks that this stuff HAS to work as it friggin stinks ! The smell is pretty foul. The heck with camoflage and stealth......the enemy can smell this stuff a mile away !!

I will make an order for more as I am of the opinion that if a man believes in their product so much as to give a sample of the size I received then I figure it has to have merit. I have an IDPA match this weekend so I think I'll go out early and fire about 500 rounds of reloads before the match and then compete with a dirty gun to see what happens. I know it's not a true test of a combat scenerio that the active duty troops are having to endure but short of a sand storm in the panhandle tomorrow it's all I got .

Stay Safe !

12 posted on 11/28/2003 7:27:28 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Squantos
Squantos, Measure the trigger pull required to fire the weapon.

Remove your trigger assembly, put a SMALL drop on the sear and all the link points. Work the assembly then take a hair drier or small heater and heat the assembly until it's too hot to hold. Allow it to cool and repeat the process.

Measure the pounds required to fire the weapon again. It will drop slightly, sometimes up to 1 1/2 pounds. Readjusted to your preference weight.

If you have a chronograph setup, you will notice and increase in the fps of anywhere up to 10% after three treatments.

I recommend shooting about ten rounds, then cleaning the barrel, fire another ten rounds, clean again. Now you're set to have some fun.

Good luck at the match.
13 posted on 11/28/2003 8:06:41 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
Thanks I have been reading the two small pamplets that came with the samples, firearms and automotive uses and didn't see that bit of knowledge so I thank you for the tips.

I am trying to get my dillon up and runnin to finish my last few reloads for tomorrow.......:o) Will see if I can do as you suggest with a heat gun in the AM.

THANKS !.........Stay Safe !

14 posted on 11/28/2003 8:28:58 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Squantos
I dug this out of the website for everyone who is interested in trying MILITEC-1.

SELF-LUBRICATION: After a complete application, a MILITEC-1 conditioned firearm is self-lubricating. Self-lubrication gives the firearm's gunmetal the dry lubricity that is required for sustained fire under all environmental conditions. If exposure to dust, sand, or extreme cold is a concern, all excess MILITEC-1 must be wiped away, leaving the firearm's surface metal clean, dry, and constantly lubricated. Please note: Complete corrosion protection and self-lubrication is attained only after both Step One and Step Two (below) are completed.

PREPARATION: To take full advantage of MILITEC-1's unique properties, start with a clean firearm. Although MILITEC-1 contains a mild detergent that will help with subsequent cleaning, there are no solvents or other hazardous materials in MILITEC-1, so it cannot remove old caked-on fouling and build-up from other lubes. Thus, if a firearm is dirty, you must clean it with a solvent before you proceed. Normal fieldstrip cleaning should be perfectly adequate. If possible, remove the handgrips, clean and prepare.

INITIAL TREATMENT: Applying MILITEC-1 to a firearm for the first time is a two-step process: (1) Application and (2) Firing.

STEP ONE: APPLICATION. Now that the firearm is clean and dry, apply a light film of MILITEC-1 to all surfaces, including the bore. Burnish/polish MILITEC-1 into exterior surfaces by rubbing rapidly using a cloth lightly dampened with MILITEC-1. Sparingly apply drops into the action, concentrating on springs, moving parts and metal-to-metal contact areas. If your firearm has a magazine, be sure to apply MILITEC-1 both inside and out. Leave a very light film of MILITEC-1 on all surfaces during reassembly. Now proceed to Step Two.

STEP TWO: FIRING. Once you fire your weapon enough times to reach operating temperatures, the heat and friction will activate MILITEC-1, strengthening the bonding process that was started in Step One. While firing, MILITEC-1 creates a self-lubricating, water-repelling, dry compound within the gunmetal.

Additional Application Instructions: If Step Two is not immediately possible, consider applying low heat to the firearm to facilitate the bonding process until you can perform Step Two. In field conditions, place your lubed firearm in the sun underneath black plastic or a similar ventilated heat source for at least two hours. Alternatively, you may use a heat gun, hairdryer, burnishing or polishing tool to heat the gunmetal. In heat controlled environments, do not exceed 150° F (65° C). In all applications that require heat to condition the firearm, always insure proper ventilation and wear protective clothing. Please consult our MSDS for additional information.

ULTIMATE PROTECTION: To maximize the effects of MILITEC-1, repeat Step One and Step Two while the firearm is still hot from the first firing session. MILITEC-1's impregnated molecular bond intensifies during the next 2-3 applications on hot gunmetal. MILITEC-1 has now become a physical part of the gunmetal.

SUBSEQUENT APPLICATIONS: It is important to continue using MILITEC-1 to lubricate your firearm throughout its normal service life. Consistent use of MILITEC-1 will maintain the self-lubricating effect, maximize corrosion protection, and minimize wear on all friction surfaces. Fouling, deposits and metallic debris do not adhere as easily to gunmetal surfaces conditioned with MILITEC-1. Use a safe, inexpensive cleaner or solvent to detail the firearm, if necessary. For maximum corrosion protection, and especially if long-term storage is anticipated, leave a very light film of MILITEC-1 on all surfaces, after both steps or field application procedures are completed.

APPLICABILITY: MILITEC-1 is recommended for all pistols, shotguns, rifles, automatic weapons, tank guns and artillery of all calibers and sizes. Note: MILITEC-1 will alleviate jamming due to tight tolerances.

15 posted on 11/28/2003 8:42:08 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
Gonna rebuild my 22RE engine on my old toyota 4x4 this winter.......may treat all the parts before I install em and take note of changes just for something to do when the snow snakes show up. That and figure out that damn rubiks cube thang !!

Stay Safe !

16 posted on 11/28/2003 8:50:43 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Squantos
Re the rebuild, if you use a small flat paint brush to apply it to every metal to metal contact surface you will be very surprised.

A neighbor friend races Mustangs. You know the kind that growl down the race track rather than munch grass in a pasture.

During assembly, he puts it on every metal to metal contact surface such as inside the piston rigs grooves, piston walls everywhere. He told me that he only lubes one contact metal surface except for the crank bearing and pistons where he does both sides.

Any roller/ball bearings that he knows will receive extreme pressure (heat), he replaces the lube with MILITEC-1 grease.

Then during operation he adds 8 ounces to the engine oil, six ounces to the transmission and rear end. I am not a high tech mechanic like his crew is but they all swear by the stuff, not at it.

17 posted on 11/28/2003 9:16:19 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
Kewl......I have a 22RE salvaged from a donor truck that I'm tearing down now and will replace mine when I'm done. I'm gonna have to order some of this panther piss (militec-1 from Brad now for sure. I'll do the trigger pull test you suggested just for shits and giggles and tell ya the results tomorrow PM late. Right now I'm up to my hips in gators with my reloading .

Stay Safe !

18 posted on 11/28/2003 9:22:16 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I'LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: BushMeister
CLP is great stuff if it is not mixed with or used in conjuction with other cleaners such as Hoppes or commonly used carburator cleaners.
CLP will create a micro layer of protection that does not attract dust/sand. If you do over oil. It will attract dust.
Lack of trust or information will cause problems with CLP.


19 posted on 11/29/2003 8:05:34 PM PST by earplug
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