Honor Indian Treaties - Get Involved

http://www.honorindiantreaties.com/act/ ^

[SheLion]

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Get Involved

New York State wants to break the law.

Governor Pataki has already called it unconstitutional.

And yet, it’s been adopted for the 2003-04 budget.

It’s a provision that calls for the State Department of Taxation and Finance to collect tax on the sale of tobacco and gasoline on Native American territories. The state’s unconstitutional action will cause over 1,000 Indians and non-Indians to lose their jobs, consumer prices to rise and businesses to close.

Tell Governor Pataki to honor the supreme law of the land. Tell him that to break centuries old treaties would be to break the law.

Click on the link below to send an email message to Governor Pataki.

Because it’s wrong.

Because it’s not fair.

Because you won’t let it happen.

Contact the Governor:

Call Governor Pataki at 518-474-7516 or send him an email message by visiting his web site (http://www.state.ny.us/governor/) and clicking on "Contact the Governor."

If you wish to contact other state representatives, visit the state Assembly home page (http://www.assembly.state.ny.us/) or the state Senate home page (http://www.senate.state.ny.us/).

We are also encouraging supporters to send letters to the editors of the daily newspapers in New York state. Links to most of the state's media outlets are on a web site called the Empire Page (http://www.empirepage.com/medialinks.html).

Sample Message:
If you wish, copy the text below and paste it into your message:

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This web site is sponsored by the Seneca Nation of Indians

 

[SheLion]

Break The Treaty, Break The Law

[SheLion]

Alert!!!

[TheAngryClam]

Tax the tribes!

[oh8eleven]

Because it’s not fair.
Yeah, well, life sucks then you die. Deal with it.

[dennisw]

Tax the bums same as other Americans are. Booze, gasoline and ciggies should be taxed the same on reservations as they are on the outside.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

Hey Chad over here.

They are at it again!

[IYAS9YAS]

Let's see, put a gas station on tribal land, gripe about remitting tax (90% or better is sales to non-tribal members) to state. Feds force state to build/maintain roads on tribal land, but state can't collect taxes on fuel from tribes...yeah, that's fair. Oh yeah, undercut the guy down the block, not on tribal land, by whatever the tax rate is, force him out of business and raise prices back up to what they would be with the tax included. Pocket the difference. Did I miss anything? We've been dealing with this crap in Idaho for years.

[Arkinsaw]

The US government ("us") made a treaty allowing them to retain some sovereignty. The Clinton administration under Babbitt stole the treaty trust funds from them and people on this forum raised hell about it. The Clinton administration was a treaty breaking administration and a trust fund stealing administration. It surprises me to see folks here advocate behaving in the same manner.

[Right Wing Professor]

It's time to end the ridiculous fiction that Native Americans are citizens of mini-nations within the United States. It's been good for nobody; the reservations are either dirt-poor and decrepit, where there is no gambling, or corrupt and dependent on human decadence, where there is gambling. Take the reservation lands and property and distribute them to the members of the tribes; calculate the amortized monetary value of any remaining US government obligations, and share them likewise, and remove any special legal status from the tribes. If they want to continue to associate as tribal organizations, that's their right as free citizens of the United States.

[Arkinsaw]

It's time to end the ridiculous fiction that Native Americans are citizens of mini-nations within the United States. It's been good for nobody; the reservations are either dirt-poor and decrepit, where there is no gambling, or corrupt and dependent on human decadence, where there is gambling. Take the reservation lands and property and distribute them to the members of the tribes; calculate the amortized monetary value of any remaining US government obligations, and share them likewise, and remove any special legal status from the tribes. If they want to continue to associate as tribal organizations, that's their right as free citizens of the United States.

I love your idea. It would work for them much better. Unfortunately, that was not the deal and not what the treaties call for and we cannot unilaterally change the terms and maintain our own integrity.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

You may attempt to re-negotiate a treaty.

But breaking it is to break your word. Now I thought the days of the US Government breaking their word to the tribes was over.

Am I wrong?

[marron]

It's time to end the ridiculous fiction that Native Americans are citizens of mini-nations within the United States.

I agree. I have no problem with the reservations being held as some kind of tribal trust or corporation, I don't even care about the tax issue, or the gambling issue, it is the fictional sovereignty that concerns me. That needs to be dealt with and done away with.

The situation of each tribe should be examined fairly, and if any further reparations need to be paid, fine, although I doubt that it should be necessary, or if so in what form. We have treaty obligations but these should simply be bought out and disposed of, as you suggest.

[Right Wing Professor]

I love your idea. It would work for them much better. Unfortunately, that was not the deal and not what the treaties call for and we cannot unilaterally change the terms and maintain our own integrity.

No treaty lasts in perpetuity. The world changes.

We can't keep the treaties, and still adhere to the constitution. How is an exclusive right to participate in a tribal election, based on race, consistent with the 14th amendment? How can we justify different laws for a white man and an Indian who live beside each other on a reservation?

[Arkinsaw]

We have treaty obligations but

Does the other party to the treaty want to re-negotiate them? Unless the answer is yes any ideas about buying out reservations is pointless.

[Arkinsaw]

No treaty lasts in perpetuity. The world changes.

We can't keep the treaties, and still adhere to the constitution. How is an exclusive right to participate in a tribal election, based on race, consistent with the 14th amendment? How can we justify different laws for a white man and an Indian who live beside each other on a reservation?

Treaties last until one side or the other breaks them or they are renegotiated. We have justified and rationalized breaking Indian treaties many times. Regardless of how it is justified and rationalized it is still dishonorable behavior no matter how convenient it is to us.

[Right Wing Professor]

Well, I'm not lawyer, but I did find the text of the 1838 Buffalo Creek treaty between the New York tribes and the United States.

http://tuscaroras.com/jtwigle/pages/treatyof1838.shtml

And it seems to me, under the text of the treaty, that the New York tribes agreed to be removed from New York to Indian territory. So I'm wondering how come there are any tribal lands left in New York state?

[Chad Fairbanks]

It surprises me to see folks here advocate behaving in the same manner.

Not THAT surprising. I mean, it's just treaties with Indians - not tlike we are human beings or anything, the way some people act. Heck, there are tons of people here who fall into one of several categories:

A. The Category who don't think Indians should be allowed to vote because "They ain't american citizens"
B. The category that thinks American Indians will be just like the palestinians, and will begin suicde bombings any minute...
C. People who think old treaties are stupid, and we shouldn't honor them, but don't know why.
D. The category who have the misguided belief that all indians pay zero taxes, because that's what they 'heard somewhere'...
E. People who just flat out hate American Indians because we are not White, but would never say so on the public forum - they'll save that for freepmail.

Then, of course, there are the decent conservatives on this board who know and understand that the treaties made between the U.S. Government and the various tribes are based on the constitution of the United States, and that breaking the treaties goes against the very principles this nation was founded on. But it seems, often enough, they are in the distinct minority here. Too bad, too.

[marron]

We don't know until we start down the road. What has suddenly made tribal sovereignty valuable is the casino trade. That could be dealt with easily, by "grandfathering" the existing casinos, or conversely by legalizing them state-wide.

I honestly have no problem with reservations as a tribal trust, or corporation, which in effect is what they are anyway, and I don't really object to any treaty obligations other than the issue of sovereignty. It is already a modified sovereignty, it is not complete by any means. Our choice is to continue to modify it over time as problems and abuses arise, or simply to eliminate the fiction at once. The latter is probably not politically possible, without something that makes the tribes want it.

But they are not actually sovereign even now. They are exempt from certain state laws but not all, and they are not exempt from federal law. It is just a muddy area of law that needs to be clarified.

It could be that we need to take the opposite approach. The level of sovereignty that exists is probably not really any greater, or perhaps less, than that which the states themselves would enjoy if the 9th and 10th ammendments were honored. So maybe the question isn't less sovereignty for the Indians but more sovereignty for the rest of us.

[Chad Fairbanks]

We can't keep the treaties, and still adhere to the constitution.

Well, thats not entirely true. Especially since the treaties are constitutionally-based.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, it could be because the Tuscaroras are a different tribe than the others - so the treaty/agreement between tehm and the feds has zero impact on negotiations with other tribes.