Ancient remains found in central Florida peat farm

Associated Press in Naples (FL) News ^ | October 13, 2003 | N/A

[Bernard Marx]

Associated Press

KENANSVILLE — When workers digging up peat at a former central Florida sod farm unearthed human remains with their backhoe, they called the police. But this was a cold case that authorities were unlikely to solve.

The bones found Thursday appeared to be those of a young man who died in his late teens or early 20s about 4,800 years ago, said Anthony Falsetti, an associate professor of anthropology at the University of Florida.

"It's quite significant because it ties into some earlier discoveries in the 1980s ... dating back to 8,000 years ago," Falsetti said Friday. "It continues to fill in the picture of early life ... in Florida."

The remains are being suspended in water at the lab, so they don't dry out and crumble into dust. Archaeologists will not photograph the bones, and he will not receive a nickname. Instead, the skeleton is designated as 10-B-03.

The Bureau of Archaeological Research in Tallahassee will survey the site where the remains were found for other signs of a past civilization. Animal bones designed in a decoration were also found with the remains discovered about 50 miles southeast of Orlando, Falsetti said.

After consulting with the two American Indian tribes of Florida, state archaeologist David Dickel said the bones were expected to be reburied in a private ceremony attended only by experts. There will be no marker, to thwart collectors and vandals.

"He lived in a simpler time with a simpler life, but this was no primitive," Dickel said. "Even though it's only bones, we think of it as a life."

[Renfield]

"....I have a theory that the Gulf Of Mexico was blocked off from the world's oceans across Yucatan, Cuba and Florida during the last Ice Age...."

NO, impossible. The maximum drop of sea level during the height of glaciation was about 300 feet, give or take a few yards. There are trenches into the Gulf of Mexico that are more than 10 times that deep. See if you can download some bathymetry charts for the Gulf. It's been open to the Atlantic for at least 65 million years.

[Renfield]

The Cherokee language, if memory serves, is in the Algonkian linguistic family, meaning that the ancestors of the Cherokee came down from the far north, not up from the south. Most Algonkian linguistic groups are in eastern Canada, with a few in upstate New York. Unless you are being flippant, please confine your speculation to the possible.

[Renfield]

That fellow is an absolute crackpot...don't waste your time.

[Amelia]

More relatives. ;-)

[blam]

"NO, impossible. The maximum drop of sea level during the height of glaciation was about 300 feet, give or take a few yards. There are trenches into the Gulf of Mexico that are more than 10 times that deep. See if you can download some bathymetry charts for the Gulf. It's been open to the Atlantic for at least 65 million years.

The world's oceans had a drop of 300-500ft, most will accept 400ft.
Here is a NOAA map of the world with the water level reduced a little over 300ft. Take a look at the Florida, Cuba and Yucatan area. Now, consider the enormous amount of weight in the northern regions, north/south would be like a 'see-saw' with the southern regions being driven upward during the Ice Age and the northern downward.

England is a good example, northern England is still rising and the south is still sinking today from the effects of the Ice Age. I propose the same effect in the Carribean so, the 300-500ft water drop would only be part of the isolating effect of the Gulf Of Mexico.

There must have been a 'whole-lot-of-shaking' in the Carribean at the end of the Ice Age.

BTW, I've had contact with some PhD's at N-G in California and they did numerous calculations trying to disprove the idea and could not, mainly, their calculations reinforced the possibility/ probability.

[blam]

"That fellow is an absolute crackpot...don't waste your time."

Didn't know that, Thanks. (LOL, I may be too. This is just a hobby with me.)

[Rebelbase]

There was an indian village in the next County south of me that has been farmed for 200 years. I was hunting arrowheads there one day when an old-timer farmer stopped to chat. He told me when he was young (1920's) he and father would occasionally plow up a leg bone in the field.

[Eternal_Bear]

Linguistics does not necessarily determine genetic inheritance. Mexican Indians speak Spanish, Caucasian Turks speak an Asiatic language related to Mongolian and Black Tuaregs of West Africa and Jews speak Afro-Asiatic languages which share a common ancestry.

A few caucasians joining with a Native American tribe would not leave much of a lingusitic heritage. The Lakotas have genes only found in Scandanavia which may indicate that they intermixed with the Vikings of the West Greenland colony that mysteriously disappeared. There is no linguistic evidence in this case just the genetic evidence.

While Native Americans and Asians are very closely related: pureblood native Americans have a bit more caucasian genetic markers than the Asians do indicating a slight admixture with caucasians occurred. So any caucasian remains found in America would have to be our ancestors since their is no evidence they nigrated to Europe. If Kennewick man had descendants; they are us not you.

[Dog Gone]

They won't even photograph the bones?

That's nuts. When you consider what is done in current autopsies today, why do ancient people get treated like a holy relic?

[Renfield]

Get a grip, man. Max depression of sea level was about 330 feet. Water still would have flowed through the Cayman Tranch and the Strait of Florida.

[blam]

"The Cherokee language, if memory serves, is in the Algonkian linguistic family, meaning that the ancestors of the Cherokee came down from the far north, not up from the south. Most Algonkian linguistic groups are in eastern Canada, with a few in upstate New York. "

The Red Paint People

From the link above

" In 1957, near Black's Beach, Naskeag, a Norse coin, dated between 1065 and 1080 was found near Black's Beach at Naskeag Point.l Made of 25% silver and 75% copper, the coin was authenticated through test by Kolbjorn Skaare, coin expert at the Uniersity of Oslo. This Norse penny, dating to the reign of Kilng Olaf Kyrre, is the oldest European artifact ever found in the United States."

[Renfield]

If you are of Cherokee ancestry, you are no more closely related to Kennewick man than am I (100% of my ancestors from various corners of the British Isles). Kennewick man, judging form his physiognomy, was most closely related to the ancestors of the Ainu, of northern Japan. "Indians" of the Pacific Northwest were, both culturally and phylogenically, quite distinct from the Algonkian-speaking peoples. You are no more closely related to Kennewick man than you are to the "true" Indians of South Asia.

[Renfield]

I'm familiar with the "Red Paint People". There was, apparently, a cultural connection among Palearctic Atlantic peoples, in Neolithic times, that stretched from Malta, in the Mediterranean, to maritime Canada and even perhaps down to what is now Maine. There are similarites in megaliths and in the practice of burying people with ochre. If you haven't seen the Nova episode entitled "Mystery of the Lost Red Paint People", you should endeavor to find it, and view it.

[blam]

"Get a grip, man. Max depression of sea level was about 330 feet. Water still would have flowed through the Cayman Tranch and the Strait of Florida."

You get a grip! I said it was a theory. Where's your Ice Age sea level data?

Also, if the structures off the coast of Florida turn out to be man made (I don't think they are, btw), I'd like to hear your explanation of how they got 1/2 mile underwater. Finding an answer to that question is how I got into this and I've not heard any better ideas than mine. You're just critizing, offer up some original ideas.

[LRS]

Without a doubt, another registered Democrat...

[Renfield]

Well, it would take me a while to round these up. I work in a profession that requires me to keep up with advances in Quaternary geomorphology and geology, but I don't keep references at home.

As for structures underwater, we should not rush to judgement that they are manmade. Plenty of natural petromorphs appear anthropogenic, but are not (for example, basalt crystals that are perfectly hexagonal in cross-section). These may be no more than granitic dikes or sills that cooled slowly, and produced macrocrystalline structures.

By the way, I've been following these issues since I read an article about a "causeway" underwater around Bimini in Argosy magazine in 1969. I'm not new to this...but I haven't seen any convincing evidence that these structures are anthropogenic.

[Renfield]

I'm getting excited now. Anyone interested in starting a Pleistocene/Quaternary geomorphology/geology/paleoclimatology discussion forum here?

[blam]

"As for structures underwater, we should not rush to judgement that they are manmade. Plenty of natural petromorphs appear anthropogenic, but are not (for example, basalt crystals that are perfectly hexagonal in cross-section). These may be no more than granitic dikes or sills that cooled slowly, and produced macrocrystalline structures. "

Dr Robert Schoch (PhD Geology/Geophysics), in his recent book, Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders says, that from all he's seen, they're natural structures. I have to 'go with' his disposition and assume he has seen at least as much data as we have and probably more. There is a (spanish name) geogolist working with the group who says that they are not natural.

The question posed to me 2-3 years ago was, if they are manmade how did they get there? Hence, my theory. (Inspired by Ryan and Pittman's work in the Black Sea)

[blam]

"Anyone interested in starting a Pleistocene/Quaternary geomorphology/geology/paleoclimatology discussion forum here?"

Sure, put me on the list.

Are you aware we have this? *Gods, Graves, Glyphs

[Scenic Sounds]

"He lived in a simpler time with a simpler life, but this was no primitive,"

Kinda sad, huh? He was just a kid, really. ;-)