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Discussion About Feminism - Vanity

Posted on 06/13/2003 7:21:36 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford

A few questions about the feminist ideology -

First, exactly what is the feminist ideology?

Does it degrade women?

If so, how does it degrade women?

How (if at all) is it unfair in its treatment of men?


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To: stranger and pilgrim; Cathryn Crawford
Given my post just above,
Feminism -- the radical notion that women are people
The idea with broad appeal: That women are people.

The specifics (unstated on the bumper sticker): the policies of the radical feminists. Equal pay laws. Abortion on demand. Destruction of tradition. I should have mentioned above in my description of the pattern that since the specifics are always going to be less popular than the broad goal, the specifics should never be mentioned when it can be avoided. When it cannot be avoided, the discussion should be shifted as quickly as possible to the broad idea.

The method: Demagoguery; anyone who opposes the specifics must be cast as opposing the idea with broad appeal. In this case, done with a healthy dose of sarcasm.

81 posted on 06/14/2003 6:26:17 AM PDT by William McKinley (He has given me not answers, but questions- an invitation to marvel!)
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To: jmc813
What do you think about post 80?

Doesn't the pattern I describe there fit not only feminism but also what has happened with the civil rights movement?

82 posted on 06/14/2003 6:27:23 AM PDT by William McKinley (He has given me not answers, but questions- an invitation to marvel!)
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To: William McKinley
I think you hit it on the head. Might I expand on this point...

particularly for an identifiable demographic group

More often than not, this group is the "children". Observing FR, it's apparent that conservatives are often guilty of this.

83 posted on 06/14/2003 6:55:30 AM PDT by jmc813 (After two years of FReeping, I've finally created a profile page. Check it out!)
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To: Northern Yankee
Dan... Are you an UPer?
Nope. I'm a "troll", not a yooper. I've been to St Ignace, the Soo, and Tahquanomen Falls before up there.

Our turkeys taste better than the ones in Michigan
You're going to have to back up that comment....which means I need to get a turkey there.

If you're ever in Wisconsin I'll show you some nice places to hunt grouse

Thanks. I may take you up on that offer sometime if I'm out that way.

84 posted on 06/14/2003 8:29:55 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan (When someone tells me 'my way or the highway', I take the highway)
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To: Dan from Michigan
You'd be welcome anytime.

Turkeys are becoming very plentful around here.

You'll just have to come on down some spring and give it a try.

85 posted on 06/14/2003 8:41:44 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom.... needs a soldier !)
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To: Fred Mertz
You like that one?

How about this one?


86 posted on 06/14/2003 8:54:52 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Cuba serĂ¡ libre...soon.)
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To: Northern Yankee
Your opinion always helps!

I agree with you completely about NOW defending Clinton. They looked like absolutely hypocritical idiots.

I also agree with you about "reproductive rights" (which is a misnomer). All that does is give women the idea that they cannot have children and be equal with men. Why? Men have children. No one suggests that men should give up their "reproductive rights".

That's only more degrading!
87 posted on 06/14/2003 9:55:28 AM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (Where are my anti-anxiety pills?!)
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To: jmc813
NOW made fools of themselves by defending Clinton, as another poster just pointed out. I'm a woman, and they sure don't represent me. I, personally, don't support rapists.
88 posted on 06/14/2003 9:58:14 AM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (Where are my anti-anxiety pills?!)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
You are too much. :)
89 posted on 06/14/2003 9:58:37 AM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (Where are my anti-anxiety pills?!)
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To: William McKinley
I can't say it any better. You hit the nail on the head.
90 posted on 06/14/2003 9:59:43 AM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (Where are my anti-anxiety pills?!)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
that was brutal
91 posted on 06/14/2003 10:43:45 PM PDT by Radix (If you do not like the weather, then do something about it!)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
NOW has always been on the wrong path, period. When did you stop supporting them?
92 posted on 06/15/2003 5:09:17 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
I never did support them. Why did you think I did?
93 posted on 06/15/2003 9:13:34 AM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (Where are my anti-anxiety pills?!)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
It appeared that from your post you thought they made fools of themselves only during Clintons debacle. IMO they have always been in that area.
94 posted on 06/15/2003 9:33:44 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Cathryn Crawford
I would argue thusly....

When there is a strong need, people will ban together for social change. In the case of feminism, it originally meant that women should have the right to vote, to run for political office, to compete in the job market for jobs, to own property in their own right, and to control property in their own right. This battle was fought right up through the '70s and won.

Here is the interesting point. Once an organization succeeds in its original goals, it either becomes morbund or it becomes infiltrated by radicals. In the case of feminism, as more and more of their goals were won, the mainstream women drifted away because there was no longer a need for organized lobbying and activism. They had won. But as they drifted away, the radicals (leftist man hating lesbian eco terrorists) took over the leadership positions in the feminist organizations. And thus we see what we have today.

Those of us who are old enough remember when feminism was simple: women should have the right to vote, to run for office, to get a job, to own and control property. Feminism today is all about pushing the homosexual leftist anti-Christian anti-conservative agenda.

95 posted on 06/15/2003 10:32:35 AM PDT by dark_lord (The Statue of Liberty now holds a baseball bat and she's yelling 'You want a piece of me?')
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To: Cathryn Crawford
Your input would be appreciated.

I believe you already know how seriously I take political movements that seek only to alter the basic natures of men and women.

But all the rest is very real and should not be discounted. LOL. ;-)

96 posted on 06/15/2003 6:27:01 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Actually, I thought they made extra fools of themselves at that time. All the other times they were just idiots. ;)
97 posted on 06/15/2003 9:17:23 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (Where are my anti-anxiety pills?!)
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To: Scenic Sounds
Thanks, my friend. ;)
98 posted on 06/15/2003 9:23:13 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (Where are my anti-anxiety pills?!)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
Re: Feminism -

For the most part the movement has lost all touch with reality. (see below) During a discussion in Constitutional Law II we were discussing the equal rights cases out of Mississippi involving using one physical standard for fire and police tests. After listening to several of the "spoon-fed" liberal females, who had never held a full-time job while attending their posh private schools, talk about how there is no difference to the sexes I raised my hand and requested all of their mailing addresses so I could invite them to my baby shower as I was going to run out and start trying to get pregnant.

After the uproar died down I then requested that the very liberal professor who weighed about 105 lbs. either drag or carry me across a 90 foot room (I weighed about 210 lbs) She advised she couldn't and I then explained that is the reason there was one physical standard and she had no business working in either law enforcement or the fire department.

After that uproar died down I requested someone to direct me to the clause in the Constitution that said everyone was allowed to hold whatever job they wanted. I further requested what Consitutional Authority stood for the proposition that an individual could tell a prospective employer what job the applicant is qualified to perform. After the shouting and name-calling stopped I requested that someone explain to me how equal rights can be interpreted to be equally qualified.

Needless to say I was not a very popular guy in my law school with the liberals...

___

In General:

There was a time when any number of non-male, non-caucasian groups/individuals did not have equal access to the machinations of power in this country.

Groups that came together to rectify that situation were needed at that time.

Individuals that wound up leading such groups came to love the power and access such leadership afforded. Now they must create issues in order to artificially sustain the groups in order to maintain their access to power.

An ugly undercurrent during this time is that these groups have become infested with individuals that, knowingly or not, espouse a desire for some variation of a Socialist, re-distribution of wealth, style government.

JMHO.

99 posted on 06/16/2003 4:10:36 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: William McKinley
"The specifics (unstated on the bumper sticker): the policies of the radical feminists. Equal pay laws. Abortion on demand. Destruction of tradition . . . "

In an ideal world pay should be based on experience, qualification, ability and proven performance. Gender should have nothing to do with it. A better qualified woman should earn more than a man of lessor ability.

Some traditions deserve to be destroyed and few, if any, should be imposed on people against their will. If women want to make non-traditional choices that should be their right in a "free" country. Why should an soul be restricted from reaching their potential just because they were born with a different set of plumbing?

As for abortion, I will not attempt to excuse or defend those who seek to encourage or justify abortion. But I do believe it's awfully easy to dismiss what is a legitimate and appropriate desire to improve the challenges women often face by reducing that struggle to the abortion battle. That, too, seems to be a case of demagoguery. I don't believe that just because some radical feminists see no other issue than "choice" we should not seriously consider that society often limits the potential of women or treats them unfairly.
100 posted on 06/16/2003 2:54:22 PM PDT by stranger and pilgrim
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