Many Catholics in the U.S. and Latin America Want the Church to Allow Birth Control and to Let Women Become Priests

pew research ^ | September 26, 2024 | Jonathan Evans and Kelsey Jo Starr

[daniel1212]

Most Catholics in all seven countries want the church to allow Catholics to use birth control.

In most of the countries surveyed, majorities of Catholics also say the church should allow women to become priests.

Opinion is more divided on whether the church should allow priests to get married.

Views on whether the church should recognize the marriages of gay and lesbian couples vary among Catholics in the countries surveyed.

Ten years ago, nearly all Catholics surveyed there (98%) expressed a favorable opinion of Francis, compared with 74% today.

[Elsie]

It was not the "people" who decided the issue but the gathered apostles and presbyters under the leadership of Peter.

I do not see any 'leadership' from Peter.

He does do some talking in this passage.

 

 

 

 ⁷ After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them:

12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up.

[Petrosius]

So a bunch of imperfect churches can come together and make a perfect whole assembly.

Got it.

No, God guides the whole church. Individuals can still err. But you are still avoiding the issue, if not by the Church, then how are we to know what is and what is not Scripture?

[Petrosius]

No, the problem is solved in the same way that the issue was solved in Acts, by accepting the authority of the Holy Spirit speaking through the assembled apostles and presbyters, i.e. the bishops of today. What is your solution?

[Petrosius]

I do not see any 'leadership' from Peter.

That is because you do not understand how ancient assemblies worked. They spoke in order of precedence. That Peter spoke first shows that he was the leader. He then listens to what others have to say. Throughout the Gospel Peter is always listed first and always speaks on behalf of the rest.

[Elsie]

Your translation tries to hide this by translating it as simply "elders."

 

 

Tries to hide?

 

Intent is hard to prove, but at least the NIV was consistant.

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2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. ³ The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. ⁴ When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 ⁵ Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses."

 ⁶ The apostles and elders met to consider this question. ⁷ After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. ⁸ God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. ⁹ He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? ¹¹ No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

 ¹² The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. ¹³ When they finished, James spoke up. "Brothers," he said, "listen to me. ¹⁴ Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. ¹⁵ The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 ¹⁶ "'After this I will return
   and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
¹⁷ that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
 ¹⁸ things known from long ago.

 ¹⁹ "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. ²¹ For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers

 ²² Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. ²³ With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

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 Douay-Rheims

 

 
  2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small contest with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain others of the other side, should go up to the apostles and priests to Jerusalem about this question.  3 They therefore being brought on their way by the church, passed through Phenice, and Samaria, relating the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren.  4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church, and by the apostles and ancients, declaring how great things God had done with them.  5 But there arose some of the sect of the Pharisees that believed, saying: They must be circumcised, and be commanded to observe the law of Moses.

 

 6 And the apostles and ancients assembled to consider of this matter.  7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know, that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.  8 And God, who knoweth the hearts, gave testimony, giving unto them the Holy Ghost, as well as to us;  9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.  10 Now therefore, why tempt you God to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

 

 11 But by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we believe to be saved, in like manner as they also.  12 And all the multitude held their peace; and they heard Barnabas and Paul telling what great signs and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.  13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying: Men, brethren, hear me.  14 Simon hath related how God first visited to take of the Gentiles a people to his name.  15 And to this agree the words of the prophets, as it is written:

 

 16 After these things I will return, and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and the ruins thereof I will rebuild, and I will set it up:  17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all nations upon whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who doth these things.  18 To the Lord was his own work known from the beginning of the world.  19 For which cause I judge that they, who from among the Gentiles are converted to God, are not to be disquieted.  20 But that we write unto them, that they refrain themselves from the pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

 

 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him in the synagogues, where he is read every sabbath. 

22 Then it pleased the apostles and ancients,

 23 Writing by their hands: The apostles and ancients, brethren,

[Elsie]

You cannot claim that the Church is infallible in determining what is Scripture but not in teaching the faith.

How about PRACTICING the faith?

Surely that must come into the equation somewhere!

[Elsie]

You cannot claim that the Church is infallible in determining what is Scripture but not in teaching the faith.

How about PRACTICING the faith?

Surely a church that is INFALLIBLE should be able to get it's members to actually DO what the Church teaches - right?

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Why call me LORD, Lord if...

You get the idea.

[Elsie]

Apocryphal books belong in the Bible? And who gets to decide?

Did the JEWS consider them to be Scripture?

Surely writings OLDER than Jesus must be looked at with special eyes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha

[Elsie]

I believe that Catholic teaching does line up with Scripture

Mary was sinless.
Mary remained a virgin.

Eh, these two should do for a start.

You may now procede to post the Scripture that backs up these two statements.

[Elsie]

You make Joseph Smith cry.

Uh, that should be ‘SPIN in grave’.

[Elsie]

So you do not have a way to determine what is Scripture and what is not. This is a problem.

And Rome got committees together to decide.

I can see how that is SO much better.

[metmom]

I didn’t evade it. I answered it and you didn’t like the answer.

Jesus Himself validated the OT. That’s most of the Bible. Is the word of Jesus Himself not good enough for you?

[metmom]

So I’m supposed to trust some religious organization to make the decision for me?

How does that mean any more? How do you know that THEY are right?

[Elsie]

Christianity had a consensus on the Bible for 1500 years until the Protestants remove the Deuterocanonical / Apocryphal books.

Democrats don't have much use for fact-checkers.

[Elsie]

you would have to replace it with "In my opinion, Scripture says.

Is that worse/better than:

"In my opinion, only Rome has the correct interpretation of what Scripture says.

[metmom]

No, God guides the whole church.

So IOW, the election of Francis to the papacy was under the direction of God Himself?

He chose that man to guide His allegedly infallible church?

I've got some land in FL to sell you. Really nice waterfront property. Honest,

[Elsie]

What is your solution?

Whatever it is would be labeled, "Your opinion."

[Elsie]

That Peter spoke first shows that he was the leader.

It shows he is the kid that always waves his hand to answer the teachers question before anyone else - https://brokenbelievers.com/2016/12/16/impulsive-peter/

[Petrosius]

How about PRACTICING the faith?

You are confusing infallible with impeccable. Peter had to be corrected by Paul. Should we therefore reject his epistles?

Why call me LORD, Lord if...

You are the ones who claim salvation by faith alone. I am glad to learn that you do not believe that anymore.

[Petrosius]

Did the JEWS consider them to be Scripture?

Yes, until the second century.

Surely writings OLDER than Jesus must be looked at with special eyes.

The entire Old Testament is older than Jesus. But the questions still remains, who decides?