Is Claiming a Higher than Retired Rank Stolen Valor? [Vanity]

FreeRepublic ^ | August 6, 2024 | Reno89519

[Reno89519]

Stolen Valor: Stolen valor refers to the act of falsely claiming military service, awards, or decorations to obtain benefits, recognition, or other advantages. This can include wearing military uniforms, medals, or insignias one is not entitled to. It is illegal under the Stolen Valor Act of 2013, which specifically targets fraudulent claims made with the intent to gain money, property, or other tangible benefits.

As many have found, I am consistently defensive of respecting fellow veterans for their honorable service, for them as veterans, regardless of role, whether in combat or not, or how long they served.

I am equally unforgiving of anyone guilty of stolen valor, whether by legal definition or by societal expectation.

So, here are two cases to consider: Representative Ronny Jackson (25-year veteran) and Governor Tim Walz (24-year veteran).

First, Representative Ronny Jackson attained the rank of Rear Admiral but was demoted to Captain upon retirement. Yet, he goes around referring to himself as an admiral. That, to me, is stolen valor.

Second, Governor Tim Walz attained the rank of Command Sergeant Major, then retired as Master Sergeant. Yet, he goes around referring to himself as a Command Sergeant Major. That, to me, again, is stolen valor.

That's rather simple. Stolen valor is stolen valor.

While the details for the lower retired rank are different, Jackson was demoted due to an Inspector General report and Walz did not complete the steps to make the rank permanent, the end fact is they are officially retired at a lower rank.

I think both are equally guilty of stolen valor. Do you agree or not? And if not, does the fact that one is Republican and the other a Democrat play into that? And would you admit if true? :)

[Political Junkie Too]

It all doesn’t add up. Letter says he quit May 16. Retired May 16. Not present to sign retirement papers. Demoted in September.

I don't know enough to know what I don't know about these things. The authors of the letter said:

It took a while for the system to catch up to him as it was uncharted territory, literally no one quits in the position he was in, or drops out of the academy. Except him.

From what I can tell from the letter: [comments by me in brackets]

---

1. On September 18th, 2001 Tim Walz reenlisted in the Minnesota Army National Guard for six years.

2. In early 2003 he was selected to attend the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy.
   1. The non-resident course consists of two years of correspondence coursework, followed by a two-week resident phase at Fort Bliss, Texas.

   2. First, they will serve for two years after graduation from the academy, or promotion to Sergeant Major or Command Sergeant Major, whichever is later.

   3. Second, if they fail the course they may be separated from the military.

   4. Third, they will complete the course or be reduced to Master Sergeant without board action.

3. [Me:] Two years of correspondence coursework plus two years of service after completing the academy would take us to early 2007 in the timeline, which would be close to the end of Walz's six-year enlistment.

4. In late summer of 2003, First Sergeant Walz deployed with the 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion in support of Operation Enduring Freedom to Italy.
   • [Me:] We should assume that Walz was in the midst of the first year of his two-year correspondence coursework at this time.

5. After the units return to Minnesota in the spring of 2004, he was selected by high level Command Sergeants Major to serve in the position of the Command Sergeant Major of the 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion.
   • [Me:] Walz would be in the second year of his two-year correspondence coursework at this time.

   • On September 17th, 2004 he was conditionally promoted to Command Sergeant Major.

6. In early 2005, a warning order was issued to the 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion, which included the position he was serving in, to prepare to be mobilized for active duty for a deployment to Iraq.

7. On May 16th, 2005 he quit, leaving the 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion and its Soldiers hanging; without its senior Non-Commissioned Officer, as the battalion prepared for war.
   • [Me:] Walz's quitting would be two years before the end of his six-year enlistment.

8. On September 10th, 2005 conditionally promoted Command Sergeant Major Walz was reduced to Master Sergeant.

9. The 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion was deployed for 22 months in 2006 - 2007. During this time, they were restricted by Army regulations and could not speak out against a candidate for office.

10. In November 2006 he was elected to the House of Representatives. He claims to be the highest-ranking enlisted service member ever to serve in congress.
    • Even though he was conditionally promoted to Command Sergeant Major less than eight months, quit before his obligations were met, and was reduced to Master Sergeant for retirement. Yes, he served at that rank, but was never qualified at that rank, and will receive retirement benefits at one rank below.

11. Here is part of Tim Walzs response:
    • After completing 20 years of service in 2001, I re-enlisted to serve our country for an additional four years following Sept. 11 and retired the year before my battalion was deployed to Iraq in order to run for Congress.

12. According to his official Report of Separation and Record of Service, he re-enlisted for six years on September 18th, 2001. However, in his response he says that he re-enlisted for four years...

13. The bottom line in all of this is gut wrenching and sad to explain. When the nation called, he quit.
    • He failed to complete the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy.

    • He failed to serve for two years following completion of the academy, which he dropped out of.

    • He failed to serve two years after the conditional promotion to Command Sergeant Major.

    • He failed to fulfill the full six years of the enlistment he signed on September 18th, 2001.

---

-PJ

[Sequoyah101]

Well, in addition to being a lie, yes, it is stolen valor.

[alexander_busek]

They had the rank. Not stolen valor. President Trump isn’t President right now, but we still call him that. Stolen valor is claiming service or valor that never happened. I’ll cut them both some slack.

Finally! A voice of reason!

Regards,

[Gaffer]

In the lesser-rank thing I don’t think it’s as much stolen valor as it is abject stupidity that depends on regular citizens’ gullibility. The fact here that these gullible citizens are voters is important and it is important for them to know everything they can about the candidate.

[tired&retired]

I have a bigger problem with his quitting to avoid joining his unit in Iraq.

[Reno89519]

As others noted, he had 24 years, likely faced the too-typical then long deployments, and opted to retire. I don’t see retiring as quitting, especially after 24 years!

[tired&retired]

He had returned and signed an agreement for 6 years. He quit to not deploy with his unit.

Woke people like him in the Army are one of the reasons our Army is as bad as it is.

[MayflowerMadam]

I think it depends on whether or not he received more money or benefits by doing it. I think that’s what has to exist for official Stolen Valor.

If listing that higher rank creates the benefit of embellishing a resume to achieve a better position or job, then I guess it would be Stolen Valor.

[mad_as_he$$]

Thanks PJ! Nice job!

[blitz128]

“…. unburdened by they past” perfectly fits heels up and her vp as well as the entire demoncratic party

All
Makes
Sense
Now

[Gay State Conservative]

I believe it is. Anything that you claim to have done...claim to have experienced...claim to have achieved...that you didn't is "stolen valor". I served a full 6 year enlistment term (active and Reserves) during the Vietnam era. I was honorably discharged at the rank of SP5. I never ran afoul of the UCMJ nor did I ever receive a ribbon for anything resembling bravery or for performance "above and beyond"...nor did I deserve any. And unlike so many of my peers I was never ordered anywhere near SE Asia.

To claim otherwise would be to cheapen the service of those who did receive ribbons...who *were* sent to SE Asia...or who did rise to the rank of GySgt or Captain.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

Yes and no. Under a provision of something called ROPMA, an officer used to be abler to retire at the next higher rank, strictly for retirement benefits and status. If they ever returned to service they would revert to their previous rank. For a time one would see few retired Ltcs as they almost all retired as full bird.

[70times7]

I agree with the exception of this part:

If they retire, normal procedure is to pay (retired) at highest rank held.

His promotion was very specifically conditional and he agreed to the terms with his signature. In other words, his situation was not normal.

The "stolen valor" issue is irrelevant to me. OTOH, the circumstances of his retirement suggest he is a weasel. His actions in office prove it.

[jagusafr]

Jackson’s might actually be worse, because a grade determination is made based on “the highest rank at which the member honorably served“. That’s why Mike Murphy retired as a first Lieutenant instead of as a colonel.

Colonel, USAF JACG (Ret)

[MayflowerMadam]

“an officer used to be abler to retire at the next higher rank, strictly for retirement benefits and status.”

So I guess it’s “Yes” for him (stolen valor) if he retired during that time.

Even if so, that’s the least of his faults. What this country has come to ... Unbelievable.

[ChuckHam]

If you held the rank you can refer to that rank IMO. Also, Command Sergeant Major is a title and not a rank. Neither stole anything if they use their highest title/rank held.

[bert]

I believe it has been common practice to allow reference to the highest rank obtained in service

I believe George Custer is remembered as a General although he was only a Colonel at his defeat at the Little Big Horn

However that is small potatoes. The Vice Presidential candidate was Governor of Minnesota. That’s very bad. He is running mate of a California liberal and it can get no worse than that.

[trebb]

There’s bigger fish to fry than using a rank one once held, but didn’t retire at - Timmy has a lot more serious issues than this....

[liberalh8ter]

It is stolen valor because the lie was used to boost his image for a job. If there’s money involved, it’s stolen valor.

[Gaffer]

I get a kick out of some B-grade movies on streaming that have Generals wearing NCO hard stipes and stuff. Movies so cheaply made they don’t bother with a military technical advisor.