Posted on 10/30/2023 4:41:26 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
… [CATL] plans to start mass production of its sodium-ion batteries in 2023. CATL has setup a large supply chain for the batteries and has entered negotiations with some carmakers about their use. Sodium-ion batteries have already been commercialized in e-bikes and energy storage.
Sodium ... is over 1000 times more abundant than lithium.
CATL is the world’s largest battery company and is the major battery supplier to Tesla.
CATL’s battery capacity is expected to reach more than 670 GWh by 2025 according to current estimates and has announced a target capacity of 1200 GWh per year perhaps as a runrate by the end of 2025 or in 2026. . . .
CATL’s first generation of sodium-ion batteries has the advantages of high-energy density, fast-charging capability, excellent thermal stability, great low-temperature performance and high-integration efficiency, among others. The energy density of CATL’s sodium-ion battery cell can achieve up to 160Wh/kg, and the battery can charge in 15 minutes to 80% SOC at room temperature. . . . The first generation of sodium-ion batteries can be used in various transportation electrification scenarios, especially in regions with extremely low temperatures, where its outstanding advantages become obvious. Also, it can be flexibly adapted to the application needs of all scenarios in the energy storage field.
Mainstream lithium ion batteries have 200-300 watt-hours per kilogram. Last year, CATL unveiled its first sodium battery prototype and said it has been experimenting with new technologies to create a second-generation sodium battery that can achieve 200 watt-hours per kilogram . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at nextbigfuture.com ...
The power is not "practically free". You have to consider the capital costs of both the generating panels and the storage and the maintenance of both.
Lots of potential there, because it allows for dispersed power, especially for off grid scenarios.
The big thing missing from the article is any mention of price.
Price is essential to understanding the practical potential. Just because sodium is common, does not mean batteries made using it are going to be cheap.
Good post. Thanks.
If you download that PDF and scroll down to page 8, you’ll see a graph which purports to tell you how much (or from your perspective, how little) battery is needed to back up a solar/wind electric power source. Tony Seba’s trick (if he is indeed its author, rather than simply promoter) is to propose a big-to-enormous overbuilding of solar power capacity. Depending on geography.
According to the theory, less sunlight can be compensated with more solar panels and more batteries, but nowhere in the inhabited world are the quantities of solar and wind prohibitive.
Again, the definition of “prohibitive” depends on the price of the solar panels and the price of the batteries - and according to Wright’s Law as Seba interprets it, time and mass production of such will drive the prices down into the “not prohibitive” range.
Tony Seba’s bottom line is that “going green” will be less expensive than continuing to rely on steam power for electrical power generation. I don’t have his supporting numbers, and I can’t check his work. But it is, at the very least, an interesting thesis.
EV policy is about saving the planet as much as CoupFlu policy is about protecting public health.
Whatever the new battery tech is, it won’t be cheap.
Cheap won’t impoverish the middle class, which is Deep State’s goal.
Quite true - but it’s known that in fact these batteries will be cheap. And the author of this article stated recently on youTube that Tesla itself could, if it came to that, produce such batteries itself.
What happens when water gets on sodium and there is air present (oxygen)? Here is a hint....BANG!
Are these e-bike batteries the ones that are lighting up peoples’ apartments in NYC?
OK. Give us the retail price of the battery per kilowatt hour.
Wondering about longevity and durability.
That and additional transmission infrastructure.
One can ‘brute-force’ solar by overbuilding by roughly 15 fold. That way, if you have a string of very bad days with your panels only producing about 15% to 20% of rated output, you still have enough to get through those days and store enough for night time. So you only need enough batteries for worst-case night time conditions (i.e., winter solstice).
Of course overbuilding by 15-fold means that you generate at least 10 times more than you use, so you have huge chunks of huge solar farms that are idle 90% plus of the time.
The other option is work on the load side of things, and that way you might only have to overbuild 5 to 10 fold to minimize batteries. Basically, you force users to minimize power usage during worst-case conditions, which would, of course be done remotely. The main loads would include heaters, AC, water heaters, and EV charging - this is easily done by remote control over thermostats and cut-offs for EVs. With those big loads out of the way, most other loads could likely be accommodated without further intrusive measures.
From what I see, they’re working hardest on the load side, as that will help them out regardless of where power generation goes.
Don’t worry folks, Joe Potato will pay for this to, out of our pockets.
Another benefit is lower cost per kWh for STATIC electricity such as solar batteries. Dollars per kWh is my primary “*I* care” about this.
Looks promising. Maybe not for vehicles just yet, but certainly for fixed installs.
Bingo!
Cost per kilowatt hour, life expectancy, total cost of ownership, the real deal on numbers.
Worth paying attention to though.
Green is the color of the death of the free world.
Yes and maybe for my lawnmower, chain saw, weed eater and leaf blowers
It’s not raw sodium metal.
The point, surely, is that we know that the price of lithium is the main driver in the cost of a lithium-ion battery - so much so that it is a very significant driver in the cost of a whole EV. In comparison, sodium is, as I noted, basically one of the forms of dirt. To call it “dirt cheap” is, therefore, hardly a stretch.
So the battery pack will be both heavier and probably be twice as expensive as a ICE car.
And you are almost forced to purchase a new car because after 8-10 years you will have to replace the battery pack at a cost that is more than the value of the car. So your 8-10 year old car is basically worthless.
And the infrastructure STILL isn’t in place. Wind and solar WILL NOT be reliable or available enough unless we build wind and solar farms the size of Nevada. The greeniacs are absolutely opposed to more gas or coal generated power and just the mention of nuclear has them putting their fingerws in their ears and going “LALALALALA”.
AND ou will need 20 charging stations to replace ONE gas pump.
AND you will need to ate least double the power generation to power all the charging stations.
AND it will cost you several thousand dollars to install a charging station at your house.
Exactly. Lots of land multiplies in value if the cost of solar panels + battery storage over the life of the installation is cheaper than running 1/4 mile of transmission line.
Once this number becomes lower than the cost of running diesel generators, an explosion in use will occur.
Because of the insane costs of solar and wind power, I have friends in Australia who say it is cheaper for them to buy and use diesel generators for their irrigation systems than it is to use power from their electrical grid! (this is with the electrical grid already installed)
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