Update from Ukraine | Wagner captured Bakhmut and will run from it in 5 days

Youtube.com ^ | 5-20-2023 | Denys Davydov

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

Update from Ukraine | Wagner captured Bakhmut and will run from it in 5 days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89Vlt4Qe7HU

****NEW SUMMARY Military MAPS & COMMENTS here:

Invasion Day 451– Summary May 20 , 2023 Jerome News The summary of the situation of Russian re-invasion to Ukraine covering the last 48 hours, as of 2023 – 22:00 (Kyiv time).

https://militaryland.net/news/invasion-day-451-bakhmut-city/

*** Greatly appreciate the viewer controlled Map magnification tool to use on each Front map!

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

VIDEOS

1. Ukraine is Ending It Now! Russian Airbase and the Train Station Were BL0WN Up One After the Other!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXGv7nTi-ok

2. Ukraine’s Victory Has Been Proven: The Russian Army Has Incurred the Wrath of US UAVs!
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252K subscribers
5-21-2023 5:00 p.m. EDT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1Er4cbcMkg

[fireman15]

they fought to defend their hearth and home. Perhaps that is a mindset that is totally alien to you.

No, they fought because they were used as pawns in a neocon game between Russia and NATO. Their leadership betrayed them because they were corrupt opportunists who owed their positions to Soros and Western Intelligence and George Soros. But this has all gone completely over your head because you have no clue about the history of this situation and believe whatever the propagandists want you to believe.

It is very sad, because it was all in vain. Ukraine's corrupt regime is now on life support and the plug will likely be pulled soon. The Russians are the only ones who now want this to drag out so that they can continue to profit from the huge increase in prices that they are getting for their exports.

[fireman15]

Sorry typo... . Their leadership betrayed them because they were corrupt opportunists who owed their positions to Soros and Western Intelligence agencies. and George Soros.

[ought-six]

“But this has all gone completely over your head because you have no clue about the history of this situation and believe whatever the propagandists want you to believe.”

Au contraire. I’ve followed the relationship between Ukraine and Russia (and the USSR) for decades. Have you never heard of the Holodomor? Have you no clue whatever of the hatred Ukrainians have for Russians?

The only thing Russia cares about vis-a-vis Ukraine is the natural resources of eastern Ukraine. Think about it: If Russia was so benevolent as to “rescue” and “liberate” eastern Ukraine, why did it kill countless Ukrainian citizens and lay waste to their homes? A benevolent “savior” does not kill those it seeks to “save” or destroy their homes and their communities. That’s what a CONQUEROR does, but not a SAVIOR.

[fireman15]

Have you no clue whatever of the hatred Ukrainians have for Russians?

So, you are saying that this conflict is justified because of residual hatred from the idiotic and cruel policies of a Soviet despot from 1932 to 1933?

My wife and I live in the midst of one of the largest concentrations of Russians and Ukrainians in this country. We have known some for decades. And guess what? The Russians and Ukrainians who live here are good people and do not hate each other. This conflict has of obviously caused some discord, but you have got it completely wrong. Russians hate Stalin as much or more than Ukrainians and no one is blaming current generations of Russians for the maniacs that were in charge 90 years ago.

Russians and Ukrainians who live here disagree on a lot but the one thing that they do agree on is that the United States government has botched this situation completely. They believe that the United States government has caused the deaths, injuries, and misery of their countrymen to be much worse. Most pray only that the mayhem that this idiocy provoked by Neocons such as yourself will be over soon before Ukraine is completely destroyed.

All we have done is made everything much worse starting long before the “invasion” took place. We have used Ukraine as pawns in a global chess game and those involved know it and do not feel grateful for our government's involvement. Wake up!!!

[ought-six]

“So, you are saying that this conflict is justified because of residual hatred from the idiotic and cruel policies of a Soviet despot from 1932 to 1933?”

Russia invaded Ukraine. Thus, Russia started the war, and Ukraine responded in defense of hearth and home. So, as for Ukraine, its defense is wholly justified.

“My wife and I live in the midst of one of the largest concentrations of Russians and Ukrainians in this country. We have known some for decades. And guess what? The Russians and Ukrainians who live here are good people and do not hate each other. This conflict has of obviously caused some discord, but you have got it completely wrong. Russians hate Stalin as much or more than Ukrainians and no one is blaming current generations of Russians for the maniacs that were in charge 90 years ago.”

Anecdotal. I can make the same argument. There are several Ukrainian families in my neighborhood, and they ALL hate Russians.

And you say that Russians hate Stalin? That’s interesting, because they have his statue and portrait all over the place, and they look back with fondness to his stint as the Soviet leader (even though he was an ethnic Georgian).

“Russians and Ukrainians who live here disagree on a lot but the one thing that they do agree on is that the United States government has botched this situation completely. They believe that the United States government has caused the deaths, injuries, and misery of their countrymen to be much worse.”

Bull crap. The Ukrainians I know would say you are full of shit.

“Most pray only that the mayhem that this idiocy provoked by Neocons such as yourself will be over soon before Ukraine is completely destroyed.”

Well, I’m not a neocon. Are you a neocom(munist)?

“All we have done is made everything much worse starting long before the ‘invasion’ took place.”

Why do you put the word invasion in quotes? That suggests that you don’t consider Russia’s actions against Ukraine (attacking Ukraine proper, inserting Russian troops into Ukraine, and illegally annexing part of Ukraine) to be an invasion. I think only you and the pro-Russia water carriers are probably the only people who don’t think it is an invasion.

“Wake up!!!”

Grow up!

[fireman15]

The one who needs to grow up and stop living in fantasyland is you. This "invasion" was the result of provocations and you and I and everyone else knows it. Zelensky was "elected" by promising to make peace with Russia but then his handlers in the West told him to go in the opposite direction and go along with NATO's expansionistic policies crossing a longstanding line that the Russians promised would result in exactly what took place. To top it off we had Biden promising ahead of time that nothing would be done as long as it was a "minor incursion".

The people of Ukraine were used as pawns by those who had no interest in their well-being. They wanted a proxy war so that they could put Russia in its place.

Only it hasn't worked out that way. It turns out that the Nazi faction that was supposed to be Ukraine's worst bad a$$e$ weren't worth a crap on the battlefield. And the money Russia was making on its exports went up by 50% even after the "sanctions". This eliminated their motive to wrap this up quickly.

In order to believe that Ukraine has any chance of ever pulling out any type of "victory" one has to suspend disbelief. We have wasted over a $113 Billion taxpayer dollars even using Democrat math.

But the real damage are the hundreds of thousands of good men and women who have been slaughtered. The real damage is that our economy has been trashed, 250 million people are in danger of starving to death, over 13M children under 5 are currently impacted by severe wasting, which is severe malnutrition that is likely to kill them and/or cause their brains and bodies to be damaged for the rest of their lives. The real damage is that countries representing 90% of the world's population are ignoring the West's sanctions. And those people are seeing Russia successfully stand up to the West. This is seen as the latest failure of the "woke" West.

President Trump has promised to end this conflict the first day he takes back his stollen office. The problem is that by the time he gets into office the Ukrainian government will have already fallen and there will be nothing left to negotiate. This situation has been botched ten times worse than the botched Afghanistan debacle. And yet we have gullible fools such as yourself still cheerleading for this awful mess. When will geniuses such as yourself grow up?

[Firehath]

the marxist left

is co opting islam

via diversity

to take down God - Judeo / Christianity

Russia / Putin is serbia2

the whipping boy to drive Israel to the surrendering table

man proposes - God does the deposing

diabolic chess they’re playing

[ought-six]

“The one who needs to grow up and stop living in fantasyland is you.”

I deal in reality, Sparky. If I want fantasy I’ll read your posts.

“This ‘invasion’ was the result of provocations and you and I and everyone else knows it.”

Provocations? Is Russia so paranoid and insecure that it can be goaded into launching the biggest European war in 80 years? Provocations? You mean like Russia invading Ukraine in 2014 and illegally annexing Crimea?

“Zelensky was ‘elected’ by promising to make peace with Russia but then his handlers in the West told him to go in the opposite direction and go along with NATO’s expansionistic policies crossing a longstanding line that the Russians promised would result in exactly what took place.”

Too funny! Yanukovych was elected on his claimed platform of closer ties with Europe and the EU, then quickly reneged on that and aligned with Russia, against the wishes of the Ukrainian people who elected him. THAT, my friend, was what started all this back in 2014. Then Yanukovych fled to his beloved Russia when the Ukrainian parliament moved towards a vote of no confidence against him.

“To top it off we had Biden promising ahead of time that nothing would be done as long as it was a ‘minor incursion.’”

An utterly boneheaded thing for Biden to say. Yet, rather than a provocation, it could almost be seen as an encouragement. Even at that, it was for a minor incursion, not the massive attack against Ukraine from the east, the north, and the south.

Do you know what a minor incursion looks like? It’s pretty much what the French and Belgians did in 1978 to rescue the Europeans who were being massacred in Kolwezi in Zaire. They went in, effected the rescue, and then an international peace keeping force took over.

“The people of Ukraine were used as pawns by those who had no interest in their well-being. They wanted a proxy war so that they could put Russia in its place.”

You are simply parroting Russian talking points.

“In order to believe that Ukraine has any chance of ever pulling out any type of ‘victory’ one has to suspend disbelief. We have wasted over a $113 Billion taxpayer dollars even using Democrat math.”

Au contraire. Ukraine wins by not losing.

“President Trump has promised to end this conflict the first day he takes back his stollen office.”

Yeah, he has made that promise. But the devil is in the details. Do you know what the details are? No, of course you don’t. Sans that, you are just talking out of your butt. And you have no information that anything he might propose would be acceptable to either party. Talk is cheap.

“The problem is that by the time he gets into office the Ukrainian government will have already fallen and there will be nothing left to negotiate.”

You have just trashed your own argument.

“And yet we have gullible fools such as yourself still cheerleading for this awful mess. When will geniuses such as yourself grow up?”

Nice try, kid. I respect a country defending itself against an unwarranted invasion by a larger and stronger neighbor. That is not cheerleading; that is just a simple recognition of an ancient moral right to protect and defend one’s home turf.

It is YOU who needs to grow up, because — as with most children — you have let emotion control you.

[fireman15]

Thank you for the education on delusional "thinking". It is difficult to understand the thought process of a person who blindly believes that the Biden administration is capable of formulating successful foreign policy. Your incoherent parroting does shine a little light on your condition.

But, your goofy attempt at name calling was especially amusing and I thank you for that.

Do you identify more with the faux intellectual Niles or the faux intellectual Fraser?

Au contraire. Ukraine wins by not losing

Now that the corrupt regime in Ukraine is obviously on the ropes even to you... we find you changing the definition of "winning". Did you also assist the CDC when changing the definition of vaccination?

The people who have the most to gain by dragging this out are the Russians. We have handed them conflicting motivation. The longer they take to wrap this up, the more money they make from their exports while Western European economies and our own are driven further toward a deep recession or worse.

The Ukrainian military with Western Support... We are winning by not losing.

[bert]

Russia is losing by losing

[fireman15]

Sorry another typo, Frasier.

[fireman15]

Russia is losing by losing

Was this a typo? Or are you are now changing the definition of winning to losing? Reality check... Russia now has control of Bakhmut. First you wokesters spent a couple days trying to deny that it happened. In you and ought6’s woke world men are women, women are men, and winning is now losing. This is the type of mental gymnastics that the supporters of the corrupt regime are now having to resort to.

[ought-six]

“Thank you for the education on delusional “thinking”. It is difficult to understand the thought process of a person who blindly believes that the Biden administration is capable of formulating successful foreign policy.”

Too funny. You, as most of your fellow-travelers, assume facts not in evidence. I respect Ukraine for fighting to defend itself in an existential war in spite of who our president is, or who Ukraine’s president is.

“Your incoherent parroting does shine a little light on your condition.”

What parroting, Sparky?

“Do you identify more with the faux intellectual Niles or the faux intellectual Fraser?”

Neither. But I bet you do.

“Now that the corrupt regime in Ukraine is obviously on the ropes even to you... we find you changing the definition of ‘winning.’”

You must be new to these Russo-Ukrainian war threads, because I said from the very beginning that Ukraine would win by not losing. Ukraine has no intent or desire or chance to invade and conquer Russia; so, if Ukraine stops Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it wins. But, logic appears to be an alien concept to you.

“The people who have the most to gain by dragging this out are the Russians.”

Wrong. China stands to gain the most.

“The longer they take to wrap this up, the more money they make from their exports while Western European economies and our own are driven further toward a deep recession or worse.”

Russia is forced to sell its exports at a serious discount; that’s hardly an economic boon to Russia. Also, Russia’s technology has been degraded because of the sanctions imposed precluding IT components from going to Russia.

You sound very young; so, your ignorance is perhaps understandable and perhaps even forgivable.

[fireman15]

Russia is forced to sell its exports at a serious discount; that's hardly an economic boon to Russia.

That would be nice if it was true, unfortunately it is not. The problem is that games are being played. Just one example... instead of getting less than $50 a barrel for their crude they have actually been getting over $80 a barrel using under the table dealing. The same is true of all of their exports. Why? Because countries representing 90% of the world's population are ignoring all of the sanctions, and even our own European “allies” have been cheating left and right.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/urals-oil-price-is-increasingly-meaningless-allowing-russian-owned-refineries-in-europe-to-build-up-slush-funds/ar-AA17YfZC

And their trading partners have also completely ignored restrictions on their technology exports to Russia. The fact that you believe the propaganda shows only that you are gullible and prone to believing whatever you are told by your greatest war time leader, Joe Biden and his administration. The rest of the world is laughing at him and us.

I said from the very beginning that Ukraine would win by not losing.

So you have believed from the very beginning that waiting out Russia, one of the most self-sufficient counties in the world with a long history of overcoming long sieges was how Ukraine would “win”? You must be a brilliant military strategist to have come up with that strategy!

You sound very young; so, your ignorance is perhaps understandable and perhaps even forgivable.

And you sound like you escaped from a skilled care facility which is about the only place one hears the derogatory term “Sparky” from the residents. As one who is in obvious cognitive decline your ignorance is definitely understandable and forgivable. But we have both been posting here for around 20 years. I have been retired for much of that time. Fortunately, my mental capacity seems to be holding up.

Hey ought-six it looks like you missed a turn.

[ought-six]

Ah, where to begin?

“That would be nice if it was true, unfortunately it is not. The problem is that games are being played. Just one example... instead of getting less than $50 a barrel for their crude they have actually been getting over $80 a barrel using under the table dealing. The same is true of all of their exports. Why? Because countries representing 90% of the world’s population are ignoring all of the sanctions, and even our own European ‘allies’ have been cheating left and right.”

For your reading pleasure:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/russian-oil-discount-asia-buyers

“And their trading partners have also completely ignored restrictions on their technology exports to Russia. The fact that you believe the propaganda shows only that you are gullible and prone to believing whatever you are told by your greatest war time leader, Joe Biden and his administration.”

Now you are being childish, which is to be expected form a juvenile. There are technology products that are forbidden to Russia because of the sanctions, and no other suppliers for those very same products exist.

Moreover, you resort to the same old foibles so common to leftist losers, which you are aping: Assuming facts not in evidence. If you brought your argument to a competent court of law your case would be tossed out with prejudice, because your argument lacks any supportable evidence. You’re all smoke, Sparky.

“So you have believed from the very beginning that waiting out Russia, one of the most self-sufficient counties in the world with a long history of overcoming long sieges was how Ukraine would ‘win’?”

Good grief, kid; you can’t even posit a coherent simile: Russia is not under siege; it is the attacker, the besieger. But Russia, as an attacker, has historically been less than stalwart.

“You must be a brilliant military strategist to have come up with that strategy!”

Not at all. A few millenia of history support it.

“And you sound like you escaped from a skilled care facility which is about the only place one hears the derogatory term ‘Sparky’ from the residents.”

You must indeed be new to these threads, because the story of Sparky was posted a long time ago; and many of your compadres are familiar with it.

“But we have both been posting here for around 20 years. I have been retired for much of that time. Fortunately, my mental capacity seems to be holding up.”

Then act like it.

[fireman15]

I get a page not found error message when I click on the link. It is similar to the common sense not found errors I get from you whenever you make another attempt to back pedal on the nonsense that you have been spouting. Good grief did you go to college with Bullwinkle Moose? I would love to keep trading insults with you, but life moves on and there will be plenty of time for I told you so’s later. So, you have a good one.

[fireman15]

I thought you and your pals might be interested in the following quote.

“The West is desperate to avoid having any meaningful discussion or review of the Battle of Bakhmut because it was such a massive loss. Think about it — a small “private” paramilitary force backed by former Chef with no military experience, forced Ukraine’s NATO-trained and supplied Army to retreat.”

“This is a very important point. Conventional military doctrine stipulates that an army attacking an entrenched force will need at least three times more soldiers than the defending force.. Looks like Russia is very unconventional. The Wagner Group’s 32,000 fighters defeated a Ukrainian force that employed over 120,000 troops, inflicting 70% casualties on the Ukrainians. Russia is writing new chapters for military academies and war colleges on how to attack and defeat a numerically superior force entrenched in fortifications. Russia was not fighting Afghan shepherds or Iraqi tribesmen armed with AK-47s. It faced off with a NATO proxy force, equipped with modern weaponry, and beat it. There is not enough lipstick in the world to paint this pig and make it look pretty.”

https://sonar21.com/judge-napolitano-and-i-discuss-the-aftermath-of-bakhmut-and-i-discover-why-the-cia-is-in-trouble/

[ought-six]

“I get a page not found error message when I click on the link. It is similar to the common sense not found errors I get from you whenever you make another attempt to back pedal on the nonsense that you have been spouting.”

Nice try, kid. The link I sent you was cut off. Here it is again, without the cut-off:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/russian-oil-discount-asia-buyers-price-cap-sanctions-china-india-2022-8

Suck it up.

[ought-six]

Larry Johnson? Who is routinely wrong on pretty much everything? The guy who — just shortly before the 9/11 attacks — publicly said that America had nothing to fear from Osama bin Laden? The guy who altered an interview with John Kerry to defame him? The guy who threatened a FReeper here on FR? That is your source?

Give it up, kid: You are foundering.