The Debate over the Origins of the War in Ukraine

American Thinker ^ | 13 Feb, 2023 | James Soriano

[MtnClimber]

All wars are like car accidents, and all car accidents have causes. Trouble is, conflicting testimony will often produce different explanations of the cause.

The conventional view on the Russo-Ukraine War holds that Russia's invasion constitutes a grave act of injustice, amounting to an open-and-shut case of unprovoked aggression. War guilt rests solely on the shoulders of Russian president Vladimir Putin. "One man chose this war," American secretary of state Antony Blinken has said, "and one man can end it," echoing a widely shared view by foreign policy elites on both sides of the Atlantic. Variations of this version would add that Putin’s past words and deeds show that he had long planned for war, that he is bent on conquest, and that he wants to recreate the Russian Empire. In any case, the key point in all this is that the war stemmed from an act of Putin's will, nothing more.

The anti-war view is in the minority; it has no standing among foreign policy elites. Generally, the war critics see two principal chains of events leading up to the conflict. The primary one is the prospect of Ukraine joining the NATO alliance and Russia's well publicized record of warnings against that development. Over the years, Russia had repeatedly signaled that it would consider such a move a threat to its security. A full diplomatic history of the run-up to the war — of who said what to whom and when — lies in the future, but enough is now known to say that the first move was taken by NATO in 2008, when it formally invited Ukraine to become a member of the alliance. War critics say the U.S. had the influence to change this policy but chose not to do so.

[MtnClimber]

There are three main arguments in the article. I could only fit two within the 300-word limit. Please read the rest before starting a flame war and getting the post pulled.

[Candor7]

Question , why was the USA funding six virus gain of function research facilities in Ukraine?

Why did the USA deny earlier entry of Ukraine into NATO while firming up lucrative trade toes with Russia like Trump was planning?

Its simple, the Dems have not gotten over how Putin stopped Obama’s Arab Spring cold in Syria, it was a refuigee exodus of Muslims aimed at the soft underbelly of Europe, including Russia. Putin was having none of it. Putin bent Obama over and reamed him like a raped ape.

Yes, Bioden caused this war on purpose, which is why he yanked America OUT of Afghanistan. abandoning America
s allies there.

Yes, this is Biden’s war,. and many leftists are becoming millionaires with the vafrious slices of the Ukraine supply pie. MArtha’s Vinyard is getting full of lefty mansions. Maybe due for a little balloon therapy.

[logi_cal869]

It is not debatable what created the conditions for conflict, nor is it debatable that supporting uke aligns with globalists and democrats.

There are some awfully conflicted souls here at FR.

[Travis McGee]

Rubble and Rhetoric
Many People Died for Nothing [in Ukraine]
Feb 8

https://deepdivewithleeslusher.substack.com/p/rubble-and-rhetoric

Excellent article by Lee Slusher on Deep Dive. Long read, but well worth it. Very highly recommended.

Naturally, the low-IQ FR poop-flingers will condemn it without reading it.

[Pete Dovgan]

I think you can make a rational argument for the war from many perspectives. As I have aged, I have become more cynical about such things and just say this:

It’s about Money.

The Uniparty had a money laundering scheme in Ukraine, and they wanted to protect it. The Russians saw the resources, food, titanium, and oil and gas (new discoveries) and saw profit if they could control them.

My theory ignores things like: state security, NAZI’s, CIA,

[bert]

Putin saw his 70th birthday approaching. He had lived beyond the 68 year male Russian life span. Putin was alive beyond his expiry date.

He determined that his opportunity for replacing the lost buffer from Euro attack was upon him. It was now or never. He ordered the war on Ukraine

Once he began losing he ordered the war crimes to begin.

[normbal]

Food for thought, maybe even open discussion if this war hadn’t already been so strongly polarized by the wastestream media and WEF/globalists/NEOCON profiteers.

Or, to quote one of America’s 1960’s-era peaceniks:

”There’s battle lines being drawn
And nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong
Young people speakin’ their minds
A-gettin’ so much resistance from behind”

(©1966 Buffalo Springfield, Stephen Stills)

[enter the anti-Putin ‘bots in 3…2…1…]

[bert]

Confusing American politics with the Russian need for an assault buffer is basically historical ignorance

[McGruff]

“The other thread is about the destabilizing changes that took place in Ukraine after a stridently anti-Russia nationalist movement took power there in 2014. That event sparked a civil war between the government and the Russian-speaking population in the eastern, or Donbas, part of the country.”

I'm glad he mentioned this part.

[Jim Noble]

foreign policy elites on both sides of the Atlantic...The anti-war view is in the minority; it has no standing among foreign policy elites

So it's in the minority? When did we vote?

And the "foreign policy elites"?

Maybe we should just follow the science.

[Ingtar]

The second argument has tentacles further back. The foundation was laid when Russia and the West guaranteed Ukrainian sovereignty in exchange for Ukraine turning over nuclear and other weapons. This proved to be a false promise when the Russians moved in anyway.

[PAR35]

Stealing natural gas played a role.

[frithguild]

My theory ignores things like: state security, NAZI’s, CIA,

very well stated.

Attrubuting such large enterprises as war to leading individuals dismisses consideration of the agency for those that drive the enterprise. Assigning leading individual culpability for a war enterprise in itself is a propaganda function.

I have always looked at attributing great shifts in socioeconomic power or war to a "great leader" as lazy scholarship. Great leaders are just self promoting opportunists that have succeeded in promoting their brand. Focus on the individual crowds out the examination of the opportunity they exploited.

[Fai Mao]

If Biden is for them, I am against them. It is just that simple. Biden and the US left are worse than Putin and the Russians on every comparable issue. The US is evil, Russia less so.

[TiGuy22]

Russian aggression, Biden weakness, deep state desire for perpetual war.

[Renfrew]

Sorry, you missed the memo from the Moscow office.

* The biolabs story was dropped. Unfortunately only morons were falling for it
* Also dropped was the “Ukrainians are Nazis” that was too hard to sell when Ukraine has a Jewish president.
* The correct line is to keep talking about how Ukraine is part of a cosmopolitan globalist plot by Soros and Schwab to destroy the Christian world.

The important thing is to make sure to call it a “cosmopolitan globalist conspiracy.” Some folk have messed up and called it a “Jewish conspiracy.” Avoid that as it makes your side look like the Nazis.

[logi_cal869]

“Sovereign country” and “corrupt US/NATO puppet” are diametrically opposed concepts.

[Renfrew]

“Russian aggression, Biden weakness, deep state desire for perpetual war.”

Before the invasion Biden said that a small Russian incursion was acceptable. It is clear there was a deal for Russia to take the Donbass and maybe the south. Biden would do what Obama did with Crimea: take a nice payout and look the other way.

The interesting question is how did that deal fall apart? Why did Putin decide to drive towards Kiev? Did Putin get greedy, or did Biden signal all of Ukraine was available for thre right price?

[logi_cal869]

“KISS” ;-)