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Stress to the ultimate degree: Coping with danger on U.S. submarines during the Second World War (Highest death rate of WW II)
Sage Journals ^ | 03/04/2020 | Michael Sturma

Posted on 05/27/2022 12:19:31 PM PDT by Az Joe

As described by U.S. naval veteran Edward L. Beach, service on a World War II submarine represented ‘stress to the ultimate degree’. Men had to be constantly on the alert for attacking aircraft, prepared to make dangerous dives and endure prolonged depth-charge attacks.

The dangers faced by submariners during World War II are apparent in the high attrition rates. According to one estimate, 1,280 submarines were lost in action or by accident during the Second World War.8 In the U.S. submarine service, about 16,000 officers and enlisted men made war patrols; from among these 3,406 died in action. This amounted to 22% of the force, the highest death rate of any branch of the American armed services.


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: death; submarine; wwii
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1 posted on 05/27/2022 12:19:31 PM PDT by Az Joe
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To: Az Joe

Higher death rate than B-17 crew?


2 posted on 05/27/2022 12:21:22 PM PDT by G Larry (Anybody notice that Satan is hard at work?)
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To: Az Joe

I’ve seen a claim that the attrition rate (killed or shot down and captured) of bomber crewmen in the 8th Air Force in WWII was around 70%.

Given the horrendous casualty rates (in an extreme case, Schweinfurt/Oct 43, 20%) prior to all-the-way fighter escort that’s believable.


3 posted on 05/27/2022 12:23:12 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: G Larry

It may have been safer to be a Marine on Iwo Jima than a bomber crewman in the ETO.


4 posted on 05/27/2022 12:24:14 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Az Joe

I had an uncle that was a submariner in the war. We never actually knew what he did, he just said he was in the Navy in an aw shucks way that he had. He would take a drag on his cigarette and say, “It was boring, you don’t want to hear about it.”

Before the war he was a baker at Holsum Bread back in the day when our small town had that sort of thing. It was wonderful, you could smell the baking bread all over town.

We found out what he did when we got his military headstone.


5 posted on 05/27/2022 12:31:21 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (Politicians are only marginally good at one thing, being politicians. Otherwise they are fools.)
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To: DuncanWaring

“It may have been safer to be a Marine on Iwo Jima than a bomber crewman in the ETO.”

I looked at the tail gunner position in Aluminum Overcast. I’m 6’4” and all I could think of was ‘no freakin’ way’.


6 posted on 05/27/2022 12:31:29 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: Az Joe

There’s a book called “Iron Coffins” written by a former WWII German U-Boat skipper. Their attrition was unbelievably high. I know longer remember the percentage, but volunteering for that service was almost a death sentence.


7 posted on 05/27/2022 12:31:44 PM PDT by Reily
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To: Reily

I’ve never understood how a person could serve extended time on a submarine even in the best of times.

I think it takes a very specific kind of person.


8 posted on 05/27/2022 12:34:19 PM PDT by Jamestown1630 ("A Republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: Reily

Yep. Those U-Boats were a ticket to death, I believe over 1,000 sunk and over 30,000 sailors went down with them. Nasty business. I suppose that movie Das Boot did a pretty good job of exhibiting the anxiety level of any submariner, on any side of the war.


9 posted on 05/27/2022 12:34:56 PM PDT by john drake (Lucius Accius-Roman,170 BC - "oderint dum metuant" translated "Let them hate so long as they fear")
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To: G Larry

About 10% of allied aircrews died in WW2. 20% of submariners.


10 posted on 05/27/2022 12:35:22 PM PDT by Seruzawa ("The Political left is the Garden of Eden of incompetence" - Marx the Smarter (Groucho))
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To: Reily

I’ve read that WWII U-boat losses amount to 75%, 28,000 KIA.


11 posted on 05/27/2022 12:39:20 PM PDT by skepsel ("A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime", Mark Twain.)
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To: Az Joe

the 8th Air Force might not see it that way...

especially the first year


12 posted on 05/27/2022 12:39:45 PM PDT by Chode (there is no fall back position, there's no rally point, there is no LZ... we're on our own. #FJB)
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To: Reily

I’ve read that WWII U-boat losses amount to 75%, 28,000 KIA.


13 posted on 05/27/2022 12:39:56 PM PDT by skepsel ("A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime", Mark Twain.)
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To: skepsel

don’t know how I did a double post


14 posted on 05/27/2022 12:40:39 PM PDT by skepsel ("A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime", Mark Twain.)
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To: Az Joe

It was my distinct pleasure to attend the “tolling of the boats” cermony at the Nimitz Museum in Fredericksburg TX last week. 128 members of the Silent Service Motorcycle Club rode and drove in from all over the country for our annual country wide rally. We gather and read the names of the boats, what happened to it and the number of our shipmates who were lost.

It reminds me every time at the choice I made and the profound effect it had on my life.

While my service was entirely on Nuke boats the WW2 vets who sailed our diesel counterparts have my eternal respect.

To all who have sailed with us, before us and have yet to sail, duty on a submarine is not something you plan. It is something that happens and will become part of your soul. I salute you all


15 posted on 05/27/2022 12:43:33 PM PDT by Cold War Veteran - Submarines
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To: skepsel

Thank you!
That was the percentage I remembered. It was so high I couldn’t convince myself I remembered it correctly!


16 posted on 05/27/2022 12:44:29 PM PDT by Reily
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To: john drake

Later in the war the Allies’ improved tech and methods enabled them to take out German subs like there was no tomorrow.

US subs were at a huge disadvantage early on (until late 43) because the torpedoes were garbage and the Bureau of Ordnance refused to fix them. Fortunately Japanese ASW tech was terrible else the subs would have suffered far worse.

I took a tour of a Gato class sub when I was in the Navy in 1968. They are nothing like the movies inside. No way would I ever volunteer for those things. My hat is off to those guys. And the aircrews in WW2. Balls of chrome plated steel.


17 posted on 05/27/2022 12:44:45 PM PDT by Seruzawa ("The Political left is the Garden of Eden of incompetence" - Marx the Smarter (Groucho))
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To: skepsel

Bad, bad, bad computer!


18 posted on 05/27/2022 1:02:49 PM PDT by Carriage Hill (A society grows great when old men plant trees, in whose shade they know they will never sit.)
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To: Az Joe

1280 subs lost in action? Ridiculous. The number, I believe, is 54 on eternal patrol. Balao Class subs averaged 80-85 crewmen.


19 posted on 05/27/2022 1:05:20 PM PDT by xkaydet65 ( )
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To: xkaydet65

All navies, not just the US Navy.


20 posted on 05/27/2022 1:07:50 PM PDT by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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