Vladimir Lincoln invades Ukraine. I think he wants to "preserve the Union."

Today | Me

[DiogenesLamp]

Seceded state about to be reacquired by the Union. Which side should we root for?

[FarCenter]

According to Star Wars, the Rebels are always the good guys.

So we should be rooting for the Ukrainians rebelling against the Russians.

And we should be rooting for the Russians rebelling against the Ukrainians.

[PGR88]

I’ve been arguing for years that Russia was reasonable to annex Crimea, or support separatists in Luhansk and Donetsk. But Kiev?

We can only guess what Putin/Russia is thinking, but I don't think they want Kiev. They can control Russian-speaking areas of the east. They want land corrider to Crimea, and they want to control ALL the black sea access. They will take everything in a the "L" shape, from Odessa to Kharkiv and leave the remaining rump of Ukraine to Hunter Biden and whoever owns him.

[freedomjusticeruleoflaw]

I don’t ignore any facts, you do. The south famously seceded from the union. The north famously ignored that action. Anyone who brings up slavery when arguing about secession is ignoring so many facts that cognitive dissonance can be the only explanation. Lincoln turned a political battle into a war that cost the lives of 500,000 Americans. Epic fail.

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

The victors also wrote and ratified the 13th Amendment, and I understand why that may bother some people. Personally, I’m a big fan.

[C210N]

The borders of Europe have been in a constant state of change for 1,000 years.

By design. Wars are profitable.

Albert Pike Letter to Mazzini

[stuck_in_new_orleans]

So by this logic in you’re ok with Russia taking back Alaska?

[Macoozie]

Gas/Oil and warm water ports

Get up to speed folks

[DiogenesLamp]

I catch flack for this but I don’t care anymore. Lincoln was a tyrant. He was well spoken and could write flowery poetic political speeches, but before the war began no one thought it was a war for union. Union became the battle cry when they need to find a reason to go to war with people they despised. Think about that for one second. Does it make any sense at all to go to war with people you despise so that you can bring them under the umbrella of your federal jurisdiction?

I've asked that point many times in many debates on this topic. I keep asking the Union defenders "why would you want to keep a bunch of slave states in your Union? Why wouldn't you say "good riddance!"?"

What I learned several years ago is the slavery argument is just misdirection. The real truth is that southern secession would have caused a massive economic loss to the rich and powerful men in the Northeast who had strong influence on the Government.

Over the years, New York and it's environs had acquired almost total control of Southern export products to Europe, and they had protectionist laws put in place that required all the Southerners (Northerners too) to buy their products in the place of cheaper and better quality European manufactured goods.

With the South leaving, it would have cost these northern "robber barons" about 750 million dollars per year in losses, and that is in a 4 billion dollar economy.

Southern secession was an economic disaster for the corrupt influencers in the Northeast. This is the real reason why the North invaded the South.

They didn't care about slavery, and we know this because they voted to approve the Corwin amendment which would have preserved slavery indefinitely.

What they cared about was money, and *THAT* is why they invaded.

Here is a map that illustrates my point. 72% of that money represented by those trade tariffs came from the Southern states.

Again, the vast majority of that money came from the South. With Southern secession, all that trade would have moved from New York and Boston to Southern port cities.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

I am pro Confederacy, myself.

[outofsalt]

and then they took down the monuments on Monument Ave.

[larryleo]

Looks like Putin wants the whole enchilada. When exactly does Brandon’s sanctions start working?

[DiogenesLamp]

Considering that Ukraine was an independent nation for over 20 years, recognized not only by the rest of the world but by Russia itself, the analogy is ridiculous.

I don't consider recognition by other nations as determinitive as to whether states have a right to independence or not.

I believe states have a right to independence if they want it.

How long did it take for people to recognize Israel? Did not Israel still have a right to exist as it's own nation?

Recognition is irrelevant. The time they remained independent is irrelevant. Once a state declares independence, they have a right to self determination.

[DiogenesLamp]

Lincoln didn’t invade the south. They shot first.

Well that's what I had been told all my life, and then I found out that wasn't true. Lincoln shot first. You just don't hear about it because it contradicts the narrative we've all been taught to justify the invasion.

[central_va]

Richmond is not a very picturesque place and now it has zero redeeming aesthetic and historic value.

[freedomjusticeruleoflaw]

People who argue that the south started the war ignore so many obvious points it makes my head hurt. Who are the founding fathers also proslavery? They created a country with slavery. They could’ve very easily said we’re gonna have a country with the states that do not have legalized involuntary servitude. Was George Washington evil for excepting the fact that his country would have slavery as founded? Was Lincoln that much better than Washington? Of course not.

[Georgia Girl 2]

Europe is a captured operation of the NWO. So was Ukraine. Its a rats nest that needs to be cleaned out. Putin drew the short straw.

[DiogenesLamp]

I guess not having slaves any more must really ticks some folks off.

Here you go again, attempting to make the issue about slavery instead of a right to independence.

Look around you. Do you see how corrupt Washington DC is today? Do you see the kind of crap they keep trying to force down our throats?

I ponder solutions, and one of the most sane ones of which I can conceive is to let Liberals have that sewer government and let we States that no longer want to have their crap ideology forced on us escape from them.

You want to paint this about slavery in the same manner that Trudeau wants to paint the Truckers as "racists" and "Nazis".

It is a deliberate attempt to misdirect the point into an area where you believe the public supports you.

This is about escaping slavery, not promoting it or justifying it.

And I'm not the only one that thinks secession from this corrupt system might be a good idea.

[logi_cal869]

If ‘we’ ever want to resolve what will worsen exponentially in the coming years south of the border, we better damned well stop effing with others’ strategic/security concerns about their borders and be supportive.

This ain’t rocket science, yet neocons persist in both parties (and here).

[icclearly]

“Lincoln was a tyrant. ....Does it make any sense at all to go to war with people you despise so that you can bring them under the umbrella of your federal jurisdiction?”

YES! You are absolutely correct. Anyone who wants to read more about this should read. He was a tyrant.

The Real Lincoln
https://amzn.to/3hfJREC

I suggest reading the reviews for a good overview. Of course, there are many who disagree but they are part of the story, too. Just like many disagreed with Donald Trump, but in the end look at what the alternative has brought down on us!

Lincoln’s assault resulted in the largest loss of human life over war ever up to our civil war.

[outofsalt]

Richmond will become South Baltimore, without the harbor.