Thanks SteveH and Tennessee Nana. My view is and has been, it's wildly optimistic to believe that ancient booty survives, particularly in the years since Helen Thomas died.
Posted on 02/14/2022 11:08:35 PM PST by ransomnote
There are several people alive that can personally attest to being eyewitnesses of the Vatican possessing Temple vessels, including the Menorah candelabra.
ransomnote: at the link, a beautiful photo in the article.
Pretend for a moment that the Vatican has in its possession some sacred and precious relics that were originally in the Herodian Jewish Temple located in Jerusalem 1,950 years ago.
If you were the pope living in the 14th century and could verify this fact, would you not ask yourself how indeed such Jewish artifacts had come to your residence in the first place?
After some digging around (no pun intended), you would have found that your new Vatican residence was actually built over sections of Caesar’s Palace – the Vatican, including St. Peter’s Basilica, was constructed over Emperor Vespasian’s Roman palace approximately 200 years after the sacking of Rome in 455 AD. Indeed, there are excavations going on there right now, even as you read this magazine.
What this means is that the vandals and the Visigoths passed over, or simply didn’t find, the select treasures secreted away in that palace, and instead took with them the many items on public display in the Temple, located not far away.
It says in the Talmud that the famous Jewish sage and author of the Zohar, Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, went to Rome with his colleagues to nullify harsh decrees placed on Judea, and while there, saw the exact items mentioned in this article. They ended up being royal guests at Vespasian’s palace after being asked to attend to his ailing daughter. When they miraculously did heal her, the sages were afforded the chance to see these extremely holy items, proving that they were kept in that place.
MORE AT LINK Is there new evidence of Jewish Temple treasures in the Vatican? - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)
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This story has the Dan Brown-quality that many folks find appealing, i.e., that the Catholic Church possesses some mind-blowing stuff (e.g.,, treasures of the Temple of Jerusalem, such as the menorah depicted on the Arch of Titus) but it’s hiding those things and lying about them for some vague but nefarious purpose. It’s not impossible that it’s true, but I’m skeptical of anything that conforms so closely to a popular yet paranoid fantasy.
Im sure its always been there ...
plunder from the crusades etc
Would be nice if true.
Thanks SteveH and Tennessee Nana. My view is and has been, it's wildly optimistic to believe that ancient booty survives, particularly in the years since Helen Thomas died.
The Vatican owns the world’s largest collection of erotic art. No telling what else they have squirreled away.
Perhaps the bible is much larger than we think, as they have squirreled away whole books.
In 1126 crusader King Baudouin II died in the Holy Land. In the following year William de Bures and Guy de Brisbarre, along with the Knight Templar Grand Master Hugh de Payens and three other Templars visited Rome where the delegation discussed matters with Pope Honorius II. The purpose of the visit has not been revealed, but can be guessed. Following the knights departure it was learned that Rome recognized the rights of the Order of Knights Templar which had just been founded in the Holy Land. Is it possible the Order’s acceptance was greased by the delivery of religious artifacts?
If anyone has a “right” to be “paranoid,” it would be Jews.
The looting in question occurred more than a thousand years earlier in 70AD.
Plundering the vanquished wasn't just institutionalized, it was a holy sacrament, evidence that the gods had granted them victory. When the emperor Trajan took the notion to assure his name would live forever by building an annex to the Roman forum, he funded it by invading Dacia (in modern Romania, early 2nd Century AD) specifically to plunder their gold mines, which were known to be among the richest in existence. He even erected a baas relief column in the new Trajan's Forum bragging of his exploits (still there today and very well preserved).
So there is no question but that the Imperial Romans were fond of gettin' their plunder on. The wealth of the entire empire was dependent on conquest ethos; to the winner go the spoils.
This image is from the baas relief interior of the Arch of Titus in the Roman Forum. Which obviously depicts carting off the loot from the Roman sacking of the Second Temple of Solomon (temple menorah, trumpets, and, notably, the incense shovels mentioned in the linked story). At one time the Italians had fenced off this arch, preventing tourists (or anyone else) walking through it, and in the doing symbolically celebrating the events depicted.
Off topic, but I was goosed by a nun in the Vatican museum. I guess I got off lucky that it wasn't a priest. :-)).
It was a priest, he was just dressed like a nun.
Jewish sources note the menorah from the Mishkan had a tripod base, unlike that depicted on the Arch. The Talmud also records that there were several iterations of the menorah during the Second Temple, and there was more than one menorah on the Temple grounds in any case.
There’s even a school of thought that the Mishkan menorah had straight candlesticks at an angle rather than the curved arms on the Arch.
Plenty of questions.
I love archeology that proves or disproves stories about people, places and things mentioned in ancient myths, documents such as the Bible, Dead Sea Scrolls or others, largely unknown to the general public [ref: Gnostic testaments found in 1920ish Egypt] and of course, tangible things like coins, implements, ornaments, etc. which can be dated to tell their part of ancient history puzzles.
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