Tesla Model 3 Delivered With Missing Brake Pad: What Happened? ... Technicians at a Tesla Service Center told the owner the sound was “normal for performance brakes.”

https://insideevs.com ^ | Jan 18, 2022 at 10:02am ET 67 | By: Steven Loveday

[Red Badger]

VIDEO AT LINK..............

Brand-new Tesla Model 3 owner April G (April Gilmore) picked up her 2022 Model 3 Performance in Tampa, Florida, in December. It was making a weird and annoying scraping sound, so she reached out to Tesla for help. As it turns out, the electric car was missing a brake pad.

When April contacted Tesla, she let them know that the Model 3 was making a scraping sound that seemed to be coming from the driver's side rear wheel. Unfortunately, the Tesla Service Center didn't have any inspection appointments available until about three weeks later. However, the following day, Tesla reached out to April and asked her to send a video so the team could listen to the sound.

April complied and recorded a video, which she sent to the service center. To her surprise, the Tesla service rep told her many people watched the video and determined that the sound was normal and that there was potentially no issue with the Model 3's brakes. Of course, April pressed the service center to move her appointment forward. Tesla told her to have the car towed if she still had concerns.

Gilmore followed through, having the Model 3 towed to a local "independent Tesla shop." Not surprisingly, upon removing the wheel, the mechanic learned that a brake pad was missing. Not only did the Tesla need a brake pad, but also the rotor and caliper had to be replaced. Gilmore's Tesla Service Center watched a video from the independent shop and asked her to bring the car in right away.

Tesla gave April Uber credits since it didn't have loaners available. The repair has been delayed a number of times thanks to parts that aren't readily available. The original repair date was scheduled for December 31, 2021, though it was pushed to January 7, 2022, then January 14, and finally January 19.

We'll be keeping our eyes on the story to find out how it all turns out. In the meantime, Tesla covered a full month of Gilmore's car payment. Regardless of how Tesla is trying to help, the whole situation is unacceptable. We honestly don't understand how anyone watching the video could think the brakes were "normal."

[jdsteel]

Once again, Pinto WAGON. Different than the Pinto.

[Pelham]

Ford’s ev pickup is going to be a major success so I wouldn’t write off Ford. GM will be lucky to survive

[stevio]

I would possibly consider an EV in the future. But sitting, 1% of its battery charge just goes. I forget what they call it. Anyway, the vehicle that I would replace with an EV is only used once a week. That’s 7% charge loss! Is that taken into the eMPG.

[bert]

No, I will admit that Iwas wrong in conceming Ford. The Ford F150 electric truck is a tale of what seems to be industrial intrigue.

They have electrified an existing truck whereas Tesla has built everything new from the ground up. There are Tesla trucks in existence but apparently not ready for prime time yet.

[ImJustAnotherOkie]

For local use only. In 20 years there may be infrastructure available, but there is just too much water on the planet.

[eastexsteve]

Nope, Cross hatch is visible even after 100k miles in modern engines. The cross hatch is what holds the oil in the cylinder walls.

If you are holing oil in the cylinder walls on compression stroke, your rings are failing (particularly your oil wiper rings) and you are burning oil. The only places the hone pattern is visible in the cylinder after an engine has completely broken in and the rings have seated will be at the very top ridge of the cylinder above where the compression ring travels, and at the bottom below where the oil rings travel on the areas where the piston skirt doesn't touch.

[eastexsteve]

Nope, Cross hatch is visible even after 100k miles in modern engines. The cross hatch is what holds the oil in the cylinder walls.

See any cross hatch in this cylinder? Want more pictures? http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Disher04/DSC00091.jpg

[dynoman]

That is completely wrong, especially with modern engines. I’ve seen many with cross hatch clearly visible all the way down the cylinder at well over 100k miles.

Hot Rod magazine has dynoed many junk yard LS engines with many miles where all they did was open up the ring gaps for boost and nitrous, put the engine back together, and more than double the HP. Cross hatch was still visible all the way down the cylinder.

“The surface finish must also meet the piston ring manufacturer’s specifications and have the proper crosshatch so the cylinder walls will retain oil and provide adequate lubrication for the rings.”

“Large, sharp peaks won’t last long once the engine is started because the tops of the peaks will be gradually sheared off by the rings as the rings break in. As the tallest peaks are knocked off, the “mountains” become flattened creating a “plateau” effect. This increases the bearing area for the rings and makes it easier for the rings to glide over the surface on a film of oil that is retained in the valleys.

According to one ring manufacturer we interviewed, once the rings have seated, wear virtually ceases because the rings are now supported by a thin film of oil and do not make physical contact with the cylinder wall. The ideal cylinder bore surface, therefore, should essentially duplicate this condition. By using the right honing procedure, you can create a surface finish that allows the rings to seat quickly with minimal wear and which will retain the proper amount of oil so the rings receive proper lubrication.”
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2000/09/cylinder-bore-surface-finishes/

“The honing process employs a honing stone of a certain grit applied with precise pressure and speed, to create the desired cross-hatch pattern. The pattern on the cylinder-wall allows the rings to seal after a short break-in period while retaining enough oil to lubricate the piston and ring package properly.

Accomplishing the proper hone is more difficult than it might appear. When racers first started experimenting with cylinder bore finishes, their early efforts were aimed at creating a near-polished surface. This turned out to be less than desirable.

Later experiments revealed that a more optimal surface finish has a few microscopic peaks combined with deeper valleys. This offers the opportunity to store sufficient oil in the valleys to lubricate the rings while still providing a smooth enough surface to seal the rings to the bore.

This approach created what was first called a plateau finish back in the 1980s. The idea was to create the surface through a process first using rough stones to create the deeper valleys, followed by progressively-finer stones, combined with reduced load on the stones to flatten the rough peaks of the surface while retaining sufficient valley depth to lubricate the rings.”
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/enginelabs-blueprint-series-the-art-and-science-of-cylinder-honing/

I use a Sunnen plateu honing method. I built a Dodge 360 for that at almost 50k miles uses less than 1 QT/10k miles. I use Amsoil and change the oil one per year. I know I’d see crosshatch all the way down the cylinder if I took that engine apart right now.

[dynoman]

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-tech-performance/136667-100k-miles-and-cylinder-walls-still-have-a-cross-hatch-hone-pattern-this-normal.html

“I have 5.0s with 160k miles that have perfect crosshatch” (it’s a problem it’s not there at 30k miles)

“I must have torn down 10 or 12 SC engines all with over 120K on them and every one of them still had the factory crosshatch in them.”

“I just tore my motor apart and after 153,000 miles the hatch looks untouched.”
https://www.sccoa.com/forums/threads/why-no-cross-hatch-after-only-30k-miles.58582/

“There is cross-hatching still in the cyl wall, with only a hair of soot at the top of the throw, no major ridges. I think this engine had 200,000, maybe 300,000 miles on it.”

“I have seen engines with no internal work done have cross hatching after 180,00 miles.”
https://www.thedieselstop.com/threads/cross-hatching.336425/

[linMcHlp]

There were no factory built front wheel drive Pintos / Pinto Wagons.

There were no factory supply lines sending the necessary front end (FWD transmission) stamped structural and suspension components that would be placed in body framework, for welding. Nor FWD driveline components in the supply system.

But, a Ford Motor authorized, or other, shop might have built a few FWD Pintos. The greater Detroit area has several capable shops that do project and short run production work for vehicle manufacturers.

The clue, is the 5 on the floor - 5 forward and 1 reverse manual transmission. Typical for a custom build.

Meanwhile, custom work at a Ford assembly plant, requires some harmony among management and labor. And the work was usually done at the end of model year production. An example would be some stainless steel versions of a few car models.

[Pelham]

Ford is aiming their electric pickup at their existing customer base and doing everything right. I follow Sandy Munro and a few others who are no B.S. auto analysts in order to get a good idea of what is going on. EV fanboys and eternal pessimists do have their use as well though.

Ford’s pickup is comparable in build and design to Rivian. But Rivian is only a medium sized truck and aimed at homeowners. Ford is full sized, intended for commercial use, contractors, people who need a working truck. It has features designed to make their jobs easier, it’s not flashy toy.

The Tesla truck could be as good as the Ford but it will be late to the market, doesn’t have the customer base of the F150 to build on, and an off putting appearance.

Ford is working with Solid Power, one of the solid state lithium battery firms like QuantumScape. These batteries are still in the design stage but once they reach production it will be a major advance in what evs can do.

[Yo-Yo]

Once again, Pinto WAGON. Different than the Pinto.

Once again, the Pinto WAGON did not have FWD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto

The Pinto was marketed in three body styles through its production: a two-door fastback sedan with a trunk, a three-door hatchback, and a two-door station wagon.

The wagon shared the same RWD drivetrain as the hatchback.

And again, Ford's first U.S. produced FWD car was the Ford Escort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Escort_(North_America)

The North American variant of the Ford Escort is a compact/small family car introduced by Ford in 1980 for the 1981 model year. Sharing its name with the third-generation European Ford Escort, the model line is the first front-wheel drive Ford developed and sold in North America. The direct successor of the Ford Pinto, as the smallest Ford car in North America, the Escort largely replaced the European-imported Ford Fiesta.

Ford also around the same time imported the European Ford Fiesta, which had FWD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fiesta

US models were Base, Decor, Sport, and Ghia, with the Ghia having the highest level of trim.[7] These trim levels changed very little in the Fiesta's three-year run in the US, from 1978 to 1980. ... In the US market, the North American Ford Escort replaced both the Fiesta and the compact Pinto in 1981, competing with the Chevrolet Chevette and Chevrolet Cavalier.

Now, if you told me you had a Ford Escort Wagon in college, and that it had FWD and went like stink in the snow, I'd believe you. If you told me you had a '78 Ford Fiesta with FWD, I'd believe you.

But if you insist that you had a Ford PINTO WAGON with front wheel drive, well I respectfully disagree that Ford ever made such a thing for the U.S. market.

[Yo-Yo]

But, a Ford Motor authorized, or other, shop might have built a few FWD Pintos. The greater Detroit area has several capable shops that do project and short run production work for vehicle manufacturers.

I seriously doubt that any shop in Detroit or elsewhere made a run of FWD 1978 Pinto Wagons for sale to the general public.

Dropping in a transverse engine FWD drivetrain into a longitudinal engine RWD engine bay is much more engineering than just an engine swap.

It may be possible that someone, somewhere swapped the U.K. Fiesta drivetrain into a Ford Pinto Wagon, but the fabrication costs would be astronomical, and would have been done for prototype or research purposes only, not for a limited production run for sale to the general public.

[Yo-Yo]

I follow Sandy Munro and a few others who are no B.S. auto analysts in order to get a good idea of what is going on.

+1 on Sandy Munro and his Munro Live YouTube channel.

[dynoman]

I just went to my shop and took this picture of a Dodge Magnum 360 with over 200k miles.



It was a running engine I used to test on my dyno with factory fuel injection. It was in preperation for the other 360 engine I referred to. That 360 had so little cylinder wear I was able to use .005 over Diamond pistons. I honed with torque plates and removed maybe .003 - .0035 off the cylinder wall, and it cleaned up perfectly. The Napier second rings probably account for some of the low oil consumption for that engine. Most people change at 3000-5000 miles and don't really know what an engines oil consumption is if they don't add between changes. Like I said before I change at one year or 25k miles, when you do that you know if the engine is using oil.

[linMcHlp]

I should have added, “as far as I have known.”

For example, Ford might have set up a short run assembly line as a model, a project, in order to work out the kinks. And Ford might have chosen an FWD Pinto Wagon, as a production test vehicle. (Easy to test drive in the area, when so-disguised.)

OTOH, Ford (or somebody) might have placed a Pinto Wagon body on a Ranger Pickup Truck drive train and suspension mix.

[dynoman]

It looks like there is a ridge in the cylinder but there really isn’t. Not one that you can catch with a finger nail. If I ran a hone in that cylinder what looks like a ridge would disappear fast and blend in with the rest of the cylinder. It’s mainly carbon on the cylinder wall.

[linMcHlp]

I did not write “for sale to the general public” nor “for the U.S. market.”

[Yo-Yo]

I did not write “for sale to the general public” nor “for the U.S. market.”

JDSteel wrote:

I had a ‘78 Pinto Wagon.

Great car, carried a lot of musical gear and guitars for me. I went to college in the snow belt (by Erie PA) and had 4 studded snow tires. It was front wheel drive 5 on the floor. It would go anywhere.

We are talking about what car JDSteel had in college. Not what some one-off prototype shop may have cooked up.

If not to offer a possible explanation as to why JDSteel could have had a FWD Pinto Wagon, what was the point of your post?

[Pelham]

“+1 on Sandy Munro and his Munro Live YouTube channel.”

Yep. Sandy and investment analysts can give you an idea of what’s ahead. Sandy from engineering and production and investment analysts from what people think is possible and will prove profitable. This is similar to the first decade of home computers.

Sony and Apple may enter the EV market. Both have the money to do it, both have the engineering talent.