Posted on 06/25/2021 1:45:06 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
Today marks the 145th anniversary of Custer's infamous "Last Stand". He always had his detractors and worshippers. Especially among his contemporaries. Major James Brisbin (2nd US Cav) is quoted as saying he was an "insufferable ass".
While we all know the woke folks will refer to him as either a "colonizer", "genocidal maniac", or worse - a "racist", his portrayal and legend is a story that will probably not die in this century or even the next.
I wanted this thread to be about him, and his massively compounded errors that led to his death and the annihilation of his battalion on June 25th, 1876.
Sure books have been written by the "experts" who swear that his movements were intentional on the ridge overlooking the LBR and beyond to the north and west.
I know a lot of FReepers are history geeks like me. So I'm going to throw out some bullets and let this thread fly. And for those who might have questions about locations or abbreviations I apologize in advance - I've just read too many books on the subject and it'll take too much space to explain. We can discuss it in the thread.
*White Cow Bull's testimony that he shot an officer in buckskin riding a sorrel horse with 4 white stockings barking orders at the Medicine Tail Coulee and dropping him. From there the Grey Horse Company backtracked up the ridge and it was a defensive slaughter from there
*Archaeological evidence of heavy skirmishing on the ridge where the current cemetery is located. Was this a retreat or where they still trying to find an alternate crossing?
*Did Company C really try to hold a line facing NW where the current museum is and eventually got routed and lost all of their horses? No markers are found there.
*Captain Myles Keough was probably the biggest legend IMHO on the Army's side. Testimony states he was shot through his knee and fell off his horse and the soldiers of Company I surrounded him immediately getting surrounded and wiped out with a handful of survivors running for dear life towards the NW where Co's C & F were. Keough was the only one not mutilated.
*Theodore Goldin's testimony. Always a controversial piece. Reliable? Or tall tale?
*Curley's Testimony. Reliable or tall tale?
*Benteen. Had he followed orders I believe he would have been ambushed upon approaching the ravine and ridge area where Co's I and L fell. Should he have followed orders? Or did he do the right thing? Also, would Reno have survived without him? My guess is probably not.
*Reno's Valley Fight. It's been stated by at least two witnesses on the Army's side and several Natives that had he kept his battalion in the timber they could have held out indefinitely. The fires the Indians were attempting to start to burn the brush couldn't start due to recent rains. Should he have stayed in the timber? Should he have dismounted and fired volleys? The retreat was a complete disaster and massive unnecessary loss of men.
*Finally Custer. *Should he have followed his initial plan and rested his exhausted troops and attack at dawn on the 26th?
*Should he have split his forces into three? Maybe two?
*Reconnaissance - there was none and the results showed.
*He clearly didn't trust his scouts or officers.
*He took with him his loyal officers and left those who hated him for the most part to maneuver the primary striking force of his attack. Perhaps Keogh or TW Custer leading the charge would have produced a bit more time for him to strike his hammer blow?
*His armaments were single shot springfield rifles. Would Spencers have produced a better defense?
Native Americans *Let's discuss how many warriors there really may have been?
*Why didn't they run here and at the Rosebud? The coordination was extraordinary and unique for them in these two battles.
*Why did they break their camp apart after this battle and not face Terry/Gibbon? They probably could have wiped them out as well if they struck them with the ferocity that they did Crook and Custer.
Some Relative Unknowns or little mentioned in the battle who I really like:
Isaiah Dorman Mitch Bouyer Charles Windolph Rain in the Face (claims he killed TW Custer) Two Moon (Later became a Christian) Lt. Harrington (Body never found)
MYSTERIES:
Did Frank Finkel actually survive and live to tell about it? Is there any truth to the story of the 7th Cavalry dead horse found near the Tongue a few months later?
Did the 2nd Cavalry really see "smoke" at about 2pm on the 25th from 40 miles away from the battlefield as has been mentioned in a few books? Hard to believe that.
Please feel free to add to this list and lets discuss it in more detail. I've probably read about 30 books about the battle and I always learn something new. There's also a good bit of BS out there as well.
Appreciate you fellow LBH history nerds!
The Gatling guns he left behind would have made a big difference.
“*Reconnaissance - there was none and the results showed.
*He clearly didn’t trust his scouts or officers. “
Clear and indisputable failure of leadership.
This put quite a damper on the centennial ceremonies back east. Couple of weeks later Wild Bill Hickok was murdered. Jack McCall shot Hickok from behind as he played poker at Nuttal & Mann’s Saloon in Deadwood, Dakota Territory on August 2, 1876. Hickok held 2 pair. Aces and eights forever after known as “dead man’s hand”.
The gov’t needs to just leave peeps alone.
34th in his West Point class of ... 34.
I like the illustrations showing the battle field movements. Thanks for posting!
That says much.
Bttt.
5.56mm
He never should have separated his troops and split them up.
“His armaments were single shot Springfield rifles.”
IIRC, battlefield archeologists found many Springfield cartridges with large scratches on them. This was indicative of extraction failure. It sounds like (and I’m merely guessing here - don’t flame me) Custer’s troops were unable to keep up a steady rate of fire that may have kept the Indians at bay.
1876
Plus he split his command...
The Indians were well armed too.
There were 2,361 cartridges, cases and bullets recovered from the entire battlefield, which reportedly came from 45 different firearms types (including the Army Springfields and Colts, of course) and represented at least 371 individual guns. The evidence indicated that the Indians used Sharps, Smith & Wessons, Evans, Henrys, Winchesters, Remingtons, Ballards, Maynards, Starrs, Spencers, Enfields and Forehand & Wadworths, as well as Colts and Springfields of other calibers. There was evidence of 69 individual Army Springfields on Custer’s Field (the square-mile section where Custer’s five companies died), but there was also evidence of 62 Indian .44-caliber Henry repeaters and 27 Sharps .50-caliber weapons. In all, on Custer’s Field there was evidence of at least 134 Indian firearms versus 81 for the soldiers. It appears that the Army was outgunned as well as outnumbered.
We lived in Montana for several years and I spent many hours at the battlefield imagining and trying to understand Custer’s circumstances and decisions. Fundamentally, he made a series of poor decisions (no recon, split command and having expectations of subordinate leaders that they would not/could not meet). Also, the topography of the battlefield was not friendly—while it looks like wide open spaces, it is not and provides a lot of hills and gully (or as Montanans call them -coolies) concealment
My bucket list includes a ride on horse back of that battlefield. The Indians have tours of it or did the last time I was there. I know a lady whose grandmother was a little girl in an Indian camp at the battle site. I believe they fought so hard because they had their families there and broke camp because they knew who they had destroyed and didn’t want their families at further risk. Custer was an egomaniac and an azzhole. IMHO.
Last night I watched the Twilight Zone episode where the National Guard tank crew travels back in time and joins the battle!
I heard that Miles Keough was an Irish immigrant who had previously been a Papal Swiss Guard. He was wearing a ring that had been given to him by the Pope. The story is maybe the Indians did not mutilate his body because they thought that the papal ring had magical power.
Agree with all you stated.
I’ve only been there twice. You cannot see very far from most vantage points. You lose your horses there and you’re done.
I remember seeing a few photos from the first “reenactment” of the battle back in the 1880s where some black & white stills showed the numbers of Indians coming over those hills and up the ravines.
Picture that landscape and hundreds and hundreds of warriors coming at you in masse - he had no chance.
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