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Two states tax some drivers by the mile. Many more want to give it a try.
https://www.msn.com ^ | 3/13/2021 | Ian Duncan, Joe Fox

Posted on 03/19/2021 5:25:41 AM PDT by Red Badger

Bruce Starr spotted the problem right away: The hydrogen-powered cars General Motors was showing off on the Oregon Capitol grounds wouldn’t need gas. And if they didn’t need gas, drivers wouldn’t be paying gas taxes that fund the state’s roads.

It was 2001, and the problem seemed urgent. GM predicted the cars would be on the market in a few years. Starr, then a Republican state representative, created a task force to figure out the future of transportation funding.

“There’s no asphalt fairy out there that sprinkles asphalt in the night on our roadways,” he said recently.

Widespread production of hydrogen-powered cars has not come to pass, but GM is eyeing an all-electric fleet by 2035 with the backing of the Biden administration. That has lawmakers in state capitals across the country and in Washington increasingly confronting the question that troubled Starr two decades ago.

Many have settled on an answer: charging drivers a penny or two for each mile behind the wheel. But while such a system would bring in tax dollars for roads, it also would present a new set of obstacles.

States are leading the way, with Oregon and Utah launching the first programs and several others running pilots to test technology and build public support. The approach has bipartisan support in Washington, and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg has signaled his openness.

But existing programs operate on a small scale, and a national system would mean tracking millions of vehicles. Supporters are pushing for the quick adoption of proposals to maintain funding of the nation’s crumbling infrastructure, while opponents, including environmental advocates, argue the shift is premature at a time when electric vehicles are a fraction of cars on the road. New fees also would slow their adoption, they say.

(Excerpt) Read more at msn.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Society
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To: Red Badger

Every other petroleum based product is going to get very expensive if the value of gas drops as gas products compose 42% of a barrel of oil.

In the early days of oil production, gas was a waste product and dumped/burned. Right up until internal combustion engines pushed demand.


41 posted on 03/19/2021 6:06:13 AM PDT by zek157
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To: HighSierra5
>>I'm seriously thinking of getting a horse.

Do you have a low emissions model?

42 posted on 03/19/2021 6:06:36 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Lean on Joe Biden to follow Donald Trump's example and donate his annual salary to charity. )
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To: nevergore

>>Most states require emission testing each year.

Even for electric cars?

The future is here, most new highways are being constructed as tollroads and some existing highways are being converted to tollways.


43 posted on 03/19/2021 6:09:28 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Lean on Joe Biden to follow Donald Trump's example and donate his annual salary to charity. )
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To: cgbg

Yes, corruption and inefficiency are natural in any monopoly ... even business. That is why free enterprise is so important.


44 posted on 03/19/2021 6:10:35 AM PDT by beancounter13 (A Republic, if you can keep it.)
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To: Red Badger

I think it best to leave the fuel taxes in place, and using some measure of “average miles driven per year”, calculate what that would mean in fuel taxes paid, on average, and using that figure charge a monthly, quarterly, semiannual or annual fee to electric and other non-fossil-fuel vehicles.

There is no need for elaborate personal data tracking systems.

You say an “average” is “unfair”?

If you own a vehicle that only gets 17 miles per gallon, and you drive it 12,000 miles in a year, you’ve paid more in fuel taxes than the owner of a vehicle that gets 20 miles to the gallon and drives the same 12,000 miles in a year. You didn’t drive more miles, but it required more fuel for you to drive the 12,000 miles, so consequently you paid more in fuel taxes. But the fuel tax level was calculated on an average miles driven per year by the stat’s drivers, from which how much revenue a given tax would raise. And yes, that winds up with owners of vehicles that have poorer fuel efficiency paying more of the tax, per mile, than owners of fuel efficient vehicles. But, ON AVERAGE, MOST drivers pay as much as the state figured they would.

It’s a system that works. No need to change it. Just add a separate tax/fee system for electric and/or hydrogen-fueled vehicles, and instead of making it privacy data intrusive, you some measure of “average” miles a year from which to set the fee/tax.


45 posted on 03/19/2021 6:11:41 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: nevergore
An easy way is a usage tax set by mileage. Most states require emission testing each year. Mileage is recorded at that time and recorded into the state system. Require alternative vehicles to also be checked and have their mileage enterred at that time. Invoice accordingly.....

Ah, but if the miles are driven outside that state, then that state has no authority to tax those miles.

46 posted on 03/19/2021 6:15:30 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (There are two kinds of people: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.)
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To: a fool in paradise
Please re-read my original post:

"An easy way is a usage tax set by mileage. Most states require emission testing each year. Mileage is recorded at that time and recorded into the state system. Require alternative vehicles to also be checked and have their mileage entered at that time. Invoice accordingly....."

BTW, toll roads do not help local surface streets. A portion of state gasoline taxes are allocated to local municipalities.

47 posted on 03/19/2021 6:16:41 AM PDT by nevergore (I have a terrible rash on my covfefe....)
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To: Wuli

Just tax the tires. Everyone needs tires, no matter what moves the vehicle.

And it is truly representative of the mileage driven, by the wear. And it would incentivize you to not wear them out as fast, burning rubber, etc................


48 posted on 03/19/2021 6:17:24 AM PDT by Red Badger ("We've always been at war with Climate Change, Winston."..............................)
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To: Red Badger

Everyone’s already going to be buying more electricity to charge their electric vehicles and electricity is already taxed by the state.

Buy a second computer for the car and swap them out part way through the year. Run one for 9 months and one for 3 months. Get inspections with the 3 month computer.


49 posted on 03/19/2021 6:20:02 AM PDT by Pollard (Bunch of curmudgeons)
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To: IYAS9YAS

Read my post #28.....

However, I currently drive through several states without the need to re-fuel in those states...Therefore, they get no state benefit but I get use of the thorofare.....

But note, currently a portion of the gas tax in each state is allocated back to the feds, then they allocate to interstate roads. If states capture a usage tax on alternative-fueled vehicles, the same would happen for them.....

No tax system is perfect nor fair......


50 posted on 03/19/2021 6:25:07 AM PDT by nevergore (I have a terrible rash on my covfefe....)
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To: Wuli

It doesn’t work when there are lots of high-mileage hybrids lowering fuel tax income, so the taxes need to be raised to maintain the roads. It’s also a hidden “subsidy” for those hybrids.


51 posted on 03/19/2021 6:26:09 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: mrmeyer

Lol...I think you’re too pragmatic. Excellent point which seems to be missed by most.


52 posted on 03/19/2021 6:36:39 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: HighSierra5

getting a horse?

I already have a couple. smile.


53 posted on 03/19/2021 6:37:27 AM PDT by Texas Fossil ((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
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To: FreedomPoster

“It doesn’t work when there are lots of high-mileage hybrids lowering fuel tax income, so the taxes need to be raised to maintain the roads. It’s also a hidden “subsidy” for those hybrids.”

I agree and recognize my omission.

Hybrids should be included in any new fee/tax regime covering “other” non-fossil-fuel driving. They could be charged one-half the fee charged to electric vehicles. It would, depending on the fees and fuel taxes, maybe encourage hybrid drivers to quit being mugwumps, and go all the way with one method or the other.


54 posted on 03/19/2021 6:39:17 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Gen.Blather

I a story about a company in PA that was getting $1800 each for a 4x8 sheet of plywood painted that stated that this project was funded by the Obama stimulus act. They posted these signs all around the country where ever there was a highway or bridge being rebuilt. They made hundreds of them.


55 posted on 03/19/2021 6:47:39 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: woodbutcher1963

Sounds like a good gig.
I want some of that gravy...


57 posted on 03/19/2021 6:49:09 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: ping jockey

What they were really decrying was the lack of funds to pilfer for pet projects ......................


58 posted on 03/19/2021 6:50:57 AM PDT by Red Badger ("We've always been at war with Climate Change, Winston."..............................)
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To: Red Badger

Let’s see:

Average annual driving of 12,000 miles a year

Car gets 25 miles per gallon (average)

That’s 480 gallons to drive the 12,000 miles

The fuel tax is 25 cents per gallon

That means you’d pay 120 dollars in gas tax PER YEAR.

But an average tire today should last 50,000 miles, so you’ll only need new tires every 4.16 years.

To make up for the state’s loss of tire-taxes when you didn’t need to change tires, you’d have to pay $480, or $120 per tire just in taxes when you finally did have to change tires.

I don’t think it is workable, from a consumer standpoint, and from the complications on the revenue side with a tax that only occurs per car once every four years or so. Paying a tax only every four years or so, and then paying it at a rate in essence to make up for no tax paid at all for several years, just won’t work.

The fuel tax is constant and consistent year round. The tire tax would not be.


59 posted on 03/19/2021 6:59:03 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Red Badger

Are they saying that there was absolutely no Infrastructure Funding in the $1.9 TRILLION DOLLAR so called Stimulus Bill they just passed?

After you factor in the $1,400 let them eat Cake Bribe money given to “some” Taxpayers, most Felons and Illegal Invaders, there is at least $1.5 TRILLION DOLLARS leftover to rebuild the entire Roadway System.

No Asphalt Fairy isn’t needed anymore. The Fed just prints the money and they add the Deficit to the owed to China Column of the Ledger.


60 posted on 03/19/2021 7:03:11 AM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Don't blame me, I Voted for the guy who actually Won the 2020 Presidential Election...)
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