Posted on 04/07/2020 4:55:52 AM PDT by Sarcasm Factory
At the risk of upsetting a few folks, someone who appears to be in the know has tossed a small bucket of cold water on the notorious hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin drug cocktail:
[....]
First up is this study from France. It’s another very small one, and all the usual warnings apply because of that. It’s from a team at the University of Paris and Saint-Louis Hospital there, and they evaluated 11 consecutive patients admitted there with the same course of treatment as the Marseilles group first reported (hydroxychloroquine 600mg/day and azithromycin, 500mg the first day and 250 mg/day thereafter). The mean age of their patients was 58.7 years, and (notably) 8 of the 11 had significant comorbidities (two obese, 5 with various forms of cancer, one with HIV). That’s a tough population, and unfortunately, the HCQ/AZ combination did nothing. One patient died (and two others went on to the ICU) and of the ten remaining, 8 were still positive for the virus by nasal swab on days 5/6 after treatment. One patient had to discontinue therapy on day 4 because of QT prolongation, a known side effect of hydroxychloroquine that can lead to fatal heart arrhythmia.
So while this is a small study and not a perfect match, it provides no evidence to show that the HCQ/AZ combination had any benefit at all. While we’re on the subject of QT prolongation, there’s this preprint from a medical team at NYU that was also treating patients with the same combination of drugs. In 84 patients, they found notable QT prolongation in about 30% of them, and another 11% were to a level (>500 milliseconds) that put them at a high risk for arrhythmia. This group’s mean age was 63, 74% male. No cancer patients in this group, but 65% did have hypertension and 20% were diabetic (which from many reports is actually a reasonable look at the patients most likely to progress to severe disease). The strongest predictor of dangerous QT numbers was the development of renal trouble while on the drug combination.
There are a couple of other things that need to be noted. One is that hydroxychloroquine itself actually lowers the activity of the innate immune system; that’s why people take it for lupus and for rheumatoid arthritis. Many people are saying that perhaps it will work best if taken early in the course of infection, but this effect (which is mediated through TLR receptors) should be kept in mind. Another potentially important point is raised in this preprint – which, it has to be said, is not human data but mouse toxicology. But with that in mind, the authors report what looks like a bad interaction in that species between HCQ and metformin. And by “bad”, I mean about 30% mortality. If this translates at all to humans, it could be bad news, because (as mentioned above) diabetics look like a high-risk group and many patients may well have been taking metformin when they present at the hospital. We need more information on this. An investigational drug combination that showed this effect in mice would not move forward in the normal course of things.
[....]
I figure if it could save everyone, we wouldn’t be having all these deaths. But it has seemed to help some.
I think it will be proven eventually it is the Zinc given with the hydroxychloroquine that kills the viral cells.
I agree, if it showed any promise in clinical use it would be ‘the’ goto treatment, but it’s not. I would want to try it if I became positive simply because of the low risk of the side effects.
DITTO...Zinc
Where is the Zinc? AZ has minor antiviral effects, but only minor. It is there merely to prevent opportunistic infections. The HQ does nothing but open a pathway into the cell for zinc and has some minor anti-inflammatory effects. Zinc interferes with the reverse transcriptase enzyme the virus uses to duplicate itself. No Zinc, no real benefit. Zinc does not like to go into cells. HQ lets it go in easily.
Hydroxychloroquine is routinely given to travelers who visit 3rd world countries and no one screams about "potential" hazards when its given out.
Lackey for big pharma.
True that!
I wonder if in a pinch that Tonic Water and Zinc may be enough to bring patients back to health. ??
Yep! Zinc, Zinc, Zinc. When a lot of these people talk about HCQ, they only mention taking it with the Z-Pac. They never mention the main ingredient Zinc. Are they including it in the cocktail?
BINGO!
Boris Johnson who banned its use in the U.K. very well may have taken this drug if he ever travelled to Africa.
I wonder if now he’s reconsidering?
And yet four entries above this one is an article in Nature claiming something pretty different.
In other words, we just do not know, but the media will insist that we do ONLY those things which those well-eddikated journalists tell us we should do.
Uh-oh.
Wonder about the others. Remdesivir, etc.
This seems like a very small, very flawed study, in which very sick people were given less than the recommended regimen, and then failed to miraculously get better.
Is this how they do science?
However, one gin and tonic a day can't hurt...I'm using plymouth navy strength gin + fevertree elderberry tonic water (or tonic water light).
I also have quercetin but not taking that yet.
Many studies confirm a decline of zinc levels with age. Most of these studies do not classify the majority of elderly as zinc deficient, but even marginal zinc deprivation can affect immune function.
Yes, the drug opens the door for zinc to kill the virus.
Using the drugs in elderly without zinc supplements is like using a gun with no bullets.
I consider metformin to be poison and will not take it, at all, for any reason - even against my doctor’s advice.
Did the author intend to portray the medicine as a poison?
Wow, hubby takes Metformin.
Thanks for posting.
A protective role of zinc in cancer has been indicated by some studies. In vitro, zinc has demonstrated efficacy in inducing apoptosis in glioma (3), bladder (4), prostate (5), as well as breast cancer (6) cells.
http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/35/10/5309.full.pdf
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.