IRS Stupidity

IRS IR-2020-61 ^ | 1 April, 2020 | NonValueAdded

[NonValueAdded]

This has got to be the stupidest thing I've heard yet out of our gubermint. First paragraph, last sentence:

"However, some seniors and others who typically do not file returns will need to submit a simple tax return to receive the stimulus payment."

SERIOUSLY??? We're all locking down, seniors are the most vulnerable, and the IRS is going to send them out to file a tax return they otherwise are not required to file??? What nimrod came up with that idea?

[NonValueAdded]

Ours too. Zero agi, zero tax, zero refund cannot be efiled. IRS e-file edit. It’s a hard stop.

[Fido969]

OK, pal, here ya go. Article describing the problem:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/03/31/irs-adds-to-confusion-about-whether-seniors-have-to-file-tax-returns-to-get-stimulus-checks/?fbclid=IwAR3cjH0L1veZa2R3Bf7q26zp0-6qw-d9FrWE-gDOVjv_gd7CcQg6Lvrxp1k#3fd8768c52ad

Source documents -

IRS website:

I am not typically required to file a tax return. Can I still receive my payment?

Yes. People who typically do not file a tax return will need to file a simple tax return to receive an economic impact payment. Low-income taxpayers, senior citizens, Social Security recipients, some veterans and individuals with disabilities who are otherwise not required to file a tax return will not owe tax.

Source: https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/economic-impact-payments-what-you-need-to-know

Here is the language from the law:

“if the individual has not filed a tax return for such individual’s first taxable year beginning in 2018, use information with respect to such individual for calendar year 2019 provided in— (i) Form SSA–1099, Social Security Benefit Statement, or (ii) Form RRB–1099, Social Security Equivalent Benefit Statement.”

Source: https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/hr748/BILLS-116hr748enr.pdf See pages 56-57

OK, pal, so I've provided documentary proof and sources.

Now that I've proved my case, I ask YOU to prove: that you're not a poo-poo head.

Come on, pal, change my mind.

[NonValueAdded]

There is no 1040EZ anymore and it was never for taxpayers over 65. Perhaps you have not had a lot of dealings with senior citizens. Sure, some can find the form online, print and mail it. I’m not worried about them. I’m worried about the sweet old lady I see in my office with about 1k a month in socsec and maybe 500 from a modest pension. They are not required to file and I will help them stop withholding so they have enough to live on. These are the people who can’t fight the borders, who are one step beyond eating cat food. The IRS knows exactly how much income they have - easily the postcard return types. Their husband is dead and buried years ago. Now they don’t know what to do and you bet the robocalls will start, here, let me help you with that. Socsec knows their Bank account. It’s simple for ssa to issue payments, send a file to the IRS and they mark them already paid.

[HHFi]

How about this for tone deafness? In the middle of a pandemic, with the tax deadline being postponed and the government sending money to people just so they can survive, I got a letter Friday from the IRS. Somehow, they’ve had time to go back over my taxes from 2017, decide I didn’t pay enough Social Security tax, and send me a bill for over $1550, which they expect me to pay by April 13th.

My accountant assures me this is a mistake, and she’s contacting them to correct it, but just the very idea of the IRS picking THIS MOMENT IN TIME to go sniffing back three years and send me a big, unexpected bill they demand to be paid in two weeks is a perfect argument for abolishing this entire idiotic system.

[catnipman]

SSA–1099 will establish eligibility as it proves to the IRS that the person does indeed have a social security number, which as i said is the first criteria for receiving a stimulus check, but SSA-1099 does not contain information about whether the person may have exceeded the $75,000 AGI threshold, nor does it provide the IRS with information about how to do a direct deposit for that person, so we’re back to what i said originally: at this time, there is no way to establish the $75,000 AGI threshold or provide the necessary direct deposit information without filing a tax return ... period ...

[justme4now]

Besides twenty or more senators who have composed a letter to Mnuchin .. would you consider Senator Josh Hawley a person?

Josh Hawley
✔
@HawleyMO
Despite language Congress passed in #COVIDー19 relief bill to ensure Social Security beneficiaries would NOT have to file taxes to receive direct relief, IRS issued guidance saying seniors DO have to file taxes. That’s ridiculous. IRS should follow the law that Congress passed

[justme4now]

Mnuchin says Social Security recipients will automatically get coronavirus checks

The Treasury Department said late Wednesday that Social Security recipients who typically don't file tax returns will automatically receive their coronavirus relief checks and will not have to file tax returns to receive their payments

CHECKS ARE COMING

[mass55th]

Not sure if you have seen this. It was just posted:

Mnuchin says Social Security recipients will automatically get coronavirus checks

[386wt]

>> “...Then why does the lady doing my tax return ALWAYS list it and include the SS copy in the file?”

Because there are certain income tests that determine how much if any exclusions should apply. The question is does she include some, all or none of it as taxable income. And is the SS copy filed with the IRS? It’s probably for your own personal file. (I am not a tax accountant, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn recently.)

[Fido969]

Well, that’s fine, but (a) it’s not what the law says, and (2) Treasury just announced tonight they’ll be following the law.

Want me to look that up for you, too?

[catnipman]

“Want me to look that up for you, too?”

yes ...

[catnipman]

yep,

the irs reversed themselves a few hours ago after a bunch of Senators raised hell:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/01/bailout-checks-social-security/

Social Security recipients who don’t usually file tax returns will automatically get $1,200 payments, Treasury says in reversal

The Treasury announced late Wednesday that Social Security beneficiaries who typically do not file a tax return will automatically get the $1,200 payment.

The announcement is a reversal from earlier in the week when the Internal Revenue Service said everyone would need to file some sort of tax return in order to qualify for the payments. Democrats and some Republicans criticized the IRS for requiring so many extra hurdles for this vulnerable population to get aid when the government already has their information on file.”

[NonValueAdded]

SecTreas has fixed this. My response to a different thread:

How does the IRS let them off the hook?

It doesn't. If you do not file and the IRS calculates that you are required to do so, you will eventually receive a letter, most likely a CP2000 letter for under-reporting. But at this point in time, the IRS has received virtually all the reporting documents and could tell each and everyone of us if there is a tax return due. It's just a matter of processing.

I posted a thread, IRS Stupidity, based on the IRS release stating that you might need to file even if not required to do so: IR-2020-61, March 30, 2020.

My concern was that our most vulnerable seniors, those with limited income and limited computer skills, would be forced out into public to get someone to help with their tax return to receive this much needed relief. Those pictures of a senior in a walker staring at empty store shelves tears at my heart strings. Damn you hoarders! And thank you store owners for having dedicated shopping hours.

It appears that SecTreas has clarified this Social Security Recipients Will Automatically Receive Economic Impact Payments and thank God for that. I can just hear the boiler rooms gearing up for the phone calls offering free "help" for these worried seniors, offering to file the necessary return if only they give their PII (personal identification information) and bank account information. I am so glad this has been corrected.

[NonValueAdded]

Thank you

[NonValueAdded]

thank you. I’m glad that got fixed.

[catnipman]

i just posted this important new information on front page news ...

[MHGinTN]

Thanks, I will ask.

[Pete from Shawnee Mission]

The check will be sent to the address or bank account of your last IRS tax filing. If you have not filed for multiple years they will not necessarily have your most current address. (You may be smart and have moved to Florida or Arkansas or some other place without state taxes.) The point is to get it in your hands without having returned checks that they have to reissue and have to dedicate staff to handle calls from all the people wondering where their check is. So, just solicit a tax return the contains current info. It will cost about $.50 for the IRS to process rather than several dollars mailing checks, handling returned check, soliciting updated adresses etc.

[usnavy_cop_retired]

That is a problem here in the Philippines. The Embassy has suspended the distribution of FPO mail to the Retired Activities Office,(RAO), which is how most military retirees receive their mail from the US. Sending and receiving mail through the Philippine mail system is 30-60 days to get, and lots of time it is lost. FPO is a privilege for military retirees and the mail comes in with the Embassy mail via airplanes.

[steve86]

Is there not some sort of private “express mail” service?