Posted on 03/17/2020 7:00:52 AM PDT by fireman15
OK, here are my questions. We had a perfect petri-dish coronavirus disease (COVID-19) experiment with the cruise ship “Diamond Princess”. That’s the cruise ship that ended up in quarantine for a number of weeks after a number of people tested positive for the coronavirus. I got to wondering what the outcome of the experiment was.
So I dug around and found an analysis of the situation, with the catchy title of Estimating the infection and case fatality ratio for COVID-19 using age-adjusted data from the outbreak on the Diamond Princess cruise ship (PDF), so I could see what the outcomes were.
As you might imagine, before they knew it was a problem, the epidemic raged on the ship, with infected crew members cooking and cleaning for the guests, people all eating together, close living quarters, lots of social interaction, and a generally older population. Seems like a perfect situation for an overwhelming majority of the passengers to become infected.
And despite that, some 83% (82.7% – 83.9%) of the passengers never got the disease at all … why
(Excerpt) Read more at wattsupwiththat.com ...
CVS is cornering the insurance market. We had to switch a few years ago. Now our local CVS is swamped in orders and they have no room to deal with the demand.
Need I go on? Because I can.
bkmk
Kind’a puts a damper on the red wine, bio flavanoid, anti-oxidant hype, eh ?
I too am one of the biggest fans of your posts here. I have a little first hand knowledge and some second hand knowledge about this from friends currently dealing with this in our community. I am incredulous about what is happening in the region where we live, and this is a hot spot (Eastern King County). I agree with you completely about the damage being done to our civil liberties vs the damage being done by the disease in our country.
Thanks for the new tagline!
If you have it, suffer no ill effects, then, it is over...who cares?
Happy to share words from this heroine!
My cruise was in mid-september. Wouldn’t that seem to be a bit early for Wuhan? Or, has it just been around a bunch longer than we thought?
Actually, if it was Wuhan and there is immunity?
We had a friend living in the United Kingdom who had chest pain and needed a stent to open up an artery in his heart. My dad had the same problem, an operation was done within a couple of days and he was out of the hospital shortly afterward feeling better than he had in a long time.
Our friend in England had been waiting two years when he finally died needlessly. And their socialized health care system is far better than Italy's. He might as well have been in Lagos, Nigeria or some 3rd world country.
The most effective treatment during the pandemic in 1918-19 was placing patients outside in sunshine.
I jumped into the middle of this conversation and apparently missed some of the jargon when it was introduced. What are blue people?
One thing about the virus, when it gets into the lungs to the point where a ventilator is required, it has you pretty sick by that time. Just speculating but in the US we will likely do better at saving some people on ventilators, but Italy was over run and likely did not have round the clock care which is also important for patients on ventilators. (Some need to have their lungs suctioned to remove liquid that builds up, for example)
Blue people are folks who get out of the ambulance at the ER and they are blue. Fireman says it’s rare. The “seriously ill” are “blue people”. There are diseases that produce “blue people”, as I mentioned, malaria is one. Dengue fever, I believe is another. This virus, it seems, not only suffocates you from lower airway edema but interferes with hemoglobin function. Like we used to say when I was on trauma teams. It’s the second car that hits you that really kills you.
I read that some MDs say CPAPs can give significant respiratory support for patients with milder needs, making ventilators more available for the severely ill. There are ~300x more CPAPs than ventilators in the US. (Probably way more than that: this figure was from a couple of years ago.) This could be organized *far* more efficiently locally and statewide than nationally.
My question: from the standpoint of your training and experience, does this make sense?
This isn’t a hoax. We need to take extreme short term measures to combat this virus. I do agree with others, though, that beyond a few months we will have to find a way to bring the economy back to life or the cure will be worse than the disease.
Cruise ships usually have better-than-hospital levels of hygiene, sanitation, and disease prevention due to the prevalence of norovirus.
Simple as that.
they can be used as well as heated hi flow oxygen. Right now they are not being used due to the risk of aerosolizing and spreading the virus but if we run into a serious ventilator shortage i’m sure that will change
Thanks Mom MD.
If CPAPs could do it I suspect CPAPs would be used. I am unfamiliar with CPAP machines that people use currently. In the old days we had “Bennet Machines” that were used to treat post op atelectasis and things. If they could have used Bennet machines to ventilate patients I imagine they would have as it was just a “CPAP” machine. I haven’t personally managed a vent since the old MA IIs. Modern ventilators have all kinds of bells and whistles. I read one hospital had no survivors WITH vents.
It could be just that you don’t want the doctor managing the CPAP machine trying to figure out how to “get by in a pinch” when you need the help. If I’m busy saving these twelve people who are taking up all my time on vents are you really going to ask me to figure out if I can add one more with a CPAP machine so I end up losing half of them for trying to add 1 more?
I get you. It’s a terrible situation for the doctors to be in.
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