Posted on 07/28/2018 11:54:17 AM PDT by grundle
Edited on 07/28/2018 4:38:42 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
The New Jersey woman who lost her husband and four kids in a deadly wrong-way crash in Delaware earlier this month is calling on cops to press criminal charges.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
I’m not sure I understand your question, so if I don’t address it, perhaps we can clarify with some give and take to reach some understanding. And it could be I misunderstood what you were saying in your original post.
The folks in the story are looking for a criminal prosecution. You stated that on a certain set of assumed facts “the person would still be in the wrong and liable civilly and possibly criminally.”
For civil liability, the standard of proof is generally ‘a fair preponderance of the evidence’ - more than 50% of the evidence in your favor to win. For certain cases, not applicable here, the standard is a higher ‘clear and convincing evidence’. And for criminal prosecutions, it is a much higher ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’.
In your post, you might get to the preponderance’ level, with ‘possibly’, you are a long way from clear and convincing proof, much less beyond a reasonable doubt.
So this matter is a long way from a criminal prosecution at this stage.
My point is, if you’re hitting debris on the roadway, the chances are very good, it’s the drivers fault.
Based on my own experience; I’d say it’s not likely the driver just wandered off the left side of the road and drove all the way across the grass median into oncoming traffic. If driver distraction or inattention was the cause here, a more likely scenario is that the driver wandered off the RIGHT side of the road and over-corrected when steering back to the left.
That MAY be the case, but not necessarily.
The accident happened at 3:45 PM, in what looks like clear, dry conditions.
The guy should be charged with involuntary manslaughter at the least.
I find it very interesting that he is not identified and that no charges have been filed. It’s like there’s a complete blackout on info about the driver and these days it arouses my suspicions about things like immigration status.
_____________________________________________________ You don't understand this? Trust me, it's not very complex. Civilly if the driver is found at fault, criminally if the driver was at the time, driving reckless, drunk et al...
After Carpenter decided a few weeks ago, the cops might need a search warrant instead of just a subpoena.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-402_h315.pdf
Also, the top of the car looks sheared off. Maybe the mom had the presence of mind to duck but I doubt that the bodies of the rest were intact.
There was an accident like that a couple years ago in our area on I-81 and it turned out the woman was drunk.
She was charged but I do not recall the outcome of that case.
I *think* she was charged and jailed.
Incorrect. It’s most *always* the case.
If you’re driving safely for the road conditions at the time, and not following too close to other traffic ahead of you, even if a washing machine fall off a truck in front of you, you should have plenty of time to stop your vehicle prior to impact. No?
No, you are way off base legally.
There are totally different standards of proof for civil and criminal cases. That's why they are pressing for a criminal prosecution. If the state can convict him, the civil case is a lay down winner. Winning the civil case doesn't help at all in the criminal case, however.
You presented a scenario in your last post involving debris lying in the road. I’m also envisioning a scenario where the debris is falling off a vehicle as it is moving — even in the next lane, where following distance doesn’t come into play.
Wow, I never implied or suggested there are not different standards of proof for civil and criminal cases?
What are you talking about? Where did I say that?
Asleep. Drunk. Or possibly some mechanical issue with the truck....which is highly doubtful.
People are doing lots of things on their phones these days while driving; plugging in map directions, changing their Pandora station, downloading music from iTunes, trying to find the cheapest gas station. I'm shamefully guilty of doing all four. Lots of distractions.
The roof was cut off by first responders from the looks of cuts.It wasnt torn off.
That’s a different story. If you’re not following the vehicle in the same lane, and are in the lane to the right or left, yes, it might be difficult to avoid debris falling off a truck, if it bounces/veers sideways into your lane.
But read back, I said , when someone hits debris on the roadway, It’s most *always* the case of someone not paying attention, following too close to the vehicle ahead, and or not driving too fast for existing road conditions.
Read the words carefully.
Even in Massachusetts, such a case will have the driver automatically charged with vehicular homicide. Then investigations begin.
You used a comma instead of a semi-colon.
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