Posted on 09/03/2016 8:24:21 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
New studies have failed to find even a single positive benefit to spanking children and a near endless amount of horrible effects. Dr. Elizabeth Gershoff joins Stefan Molyneux to discuss her latest study, refuting the common pro-spanking arguments, why social justice warriors have nothing to do with less aggressive parenting, associating love with physical abuse and ending the escalating cycle of violence in relationships.
Dr. Elizabeth Gershoff is a developmental psychologist, in addition to being a Faculty Research Associate and Associate Professor of Human Development and Family Sciences at University of Texas at Austin. She recently published a revolutionary new study called “Spanking and Child Outcomes: Old Controversies and New Meta-Analyses.”
(Excerpt) Read more at youtu.be ...
When little children are told, for example, “NEVER STICK A PAPER CLIP INTO THE ELECTRIC SOCKET YOU MIGHT DIE!!!!” , and they give you that look and do it again, the spank is what saves their little lives....and a parent’s grieving for a lifetime.
Gotta have in the toolkit. Gotta.
No human being will ever go to the Lake of Fire because of their sin. The penalty of sin has already be paid for all humanity. Humans are all born condemned to the Lake of Fire, but are saved immediately upon facing God and confessing their sins to Him through faith in what He provided at the Cross.
Too many people fail to continue reading after John 3:16
Joh 3:16-21
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
(20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
(21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
See, that's your problem. You present untested RESEARCH as unimpeachable, and sanctimoniously sneer at EMPIRICAL DATA which you demean as "gratuitous assertion."
Furthermore, you know no more about the calibration of this meta-analysis than any of us do, yet your conceit makes you duplicitously dismissive against rational skepticism instead of analytically informative.
That is truly a sick statement. Insulting to all FReepers, at least the majority...80%. Spanking is not beating and when properly used can save a child. Are you a parent?
Kids under a certain age do not understand reason... they only associate pleasure and pain.
I have seen kids go horribly wrong when parents “spare the rod”.
The worst parenting practice today is not following through with a “command”. Watch parents that tell a child to do something like sit on the couch and when the child doesn’t or stops doing whatever made the parent give the command in the first place, the parent doesn’t enforce their command.
The child learns that they don’t actually have to do what the parent says. They just have to get to a point where the parent gives up. My wife and I never fell for this. When I said, come sit on the couch and if my child didn’t do it, or refused, they got an @$$ whooping. Period. Always.
To this day, if I direct my younger children to do something and they try that crap where they say they will stop doing whatever they are doing and try to avoid what ever I told them to do.... Doesn’t matter that they stopped doing whatever. I told them to do something and you better believe one way or another, they are going to do it.
As a result, I haven’t had to spank any of my children in years. Because they know... if I tell them something, they know exactly what the consequences are for not doing it. There is no compromise.
Like I said, parents that choose not to discipline in an appropriate way, you’re not doing yourself, your child, nor society as a whole any favors. You’re creating a monster.
It is the liberal inability to understand and recognize these differences that also makes them unable to determine lethal self defense and deliberate murder.
Precisely.
I did watch enough of this video to get a couple of conclusions from it. Gershoff, who is the “author” of this mentions once about criticisms of one of her just-prior works as including physical abuse (hitting, objects, etc.) so she went back and supposedly concentrated on just ‘spanking’ as the study focus.
Yet, in doing this both she and the host keep constantly citing the fear that ‘spanking’ can/would grow into abuse and she even cited reviews of studies that concentrated on “spanking AND abuse” largely within same sample families. Additionally, they keep mentioning this “the data show....” a lot but assume the conclusions they draw from “the data” are as well known and as “settled-science” as Global Warming. Which brings me to my second conclusion based on the interview part that I did see.
She (Gershoff) explains in a wonderful cacophony of development mumbo jumbo about her “meta-analysis” and how this (by her implication) shows the conclusion of the study must/might be irrefutable.
What her “meta-analysis” apparently consisted of (my interpretation by her statements) was a review/study of 50 years of prior “studies” by others about “spanking.” At the point I stopped there had been no mention of validity or faults recognized or evaluated in the study study-set, nor any specificity of results - largely just generalized conclusions that agreed with the thesis of her latest study.
Somehow, HER study is valid because she statistically evaluated all these ‘studies’ and came up with a result that is “scientific” because because of her methodology. Yet, she had earlier admitted she did this study (in part) because of criticisms of her earlier study (I’d guess it was ‘meta-analyzed’ also) so she went back and filtered some more.
This trend by academics to legitimize data under the guise of objective scientific analysis (and therefore indisputable) is a pretty common way to try hide preconceived subjective conclusions going into the study.
From my own personal viewpoint, I believe this is the same kind of pre-conceived scholarship by Michael Mann of PSU, James Hansen at NASA, and Phil Jones at EA CRU under the guise of “science” and “data.” In the end, it is the study’s Principal Investigators who get to choose (cherry pick?) what data and how much gets used to fit the goal of the “study.”
The difference between you and Art is you have conducted research and Art has not. Thank you for your posting and analysis.
Meta-analysis is pseudoscience.
My opinion of a lot of so-called science (particularly those in psychology, social, developmental, et al areas) is that it is an attempt to legitimize subjective scholarship as being somehow equivalent to more rigorous closed-form equation science like physics or mathematics.
The correct term is not spanking. It is discipline. And discipline is the correcting of wrong behavior. With small children, the spanking/paddling/rod of correction is all about associating the wrongful behavior with consequence. It is the God-directed method of getting the child’s attention. When prefaced with an explanation of why the “correction” is about to happen (explanation of the wrong behavior) and followed by discussion of the sought after behavior (so that correction need not take place again), this form of discipline is the God-given antidote to waywardness in a child.
Pro 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
It’s not beating. It’s referred to as the judicious use of pain.
Spanking a wayward or misbehaving child is a wise method of teaching them that actions have consequences. It’s not to be done in a random or wonton manner, yet as a reasoned response to train them that their actions were wrong and to train them in wisdom and admonition.
Usually, just the threat was enough for my kids, all four who have grown up to be wise, responsible young adults.
So suddenly, after centuries, the whole notion of negative reinforcement has been declared ineffective by a couple of nobody psychologists seeking to make names for themselves.
What an excellent reason to discredit a practice that’s only been in place for a couple of millennia.
My Mom had a riding crop. Once! Only once!
“The notion that beating people repeatedly is okay, provided they are too small to defend themselves, is clearly an anti-civilizational idea.”
You’re so full of bullshit. I teach a generation kids who’ve NEVER been spanked for anything. One good ass-kicking (and the THREAT of another ass-kicking) for precisely the same behavior would solve problems for 99% of them.
There is a difference between beating (taking out one’s frustration through violence) and spanking (imposing immediate consequences for bad behavior).
Imposing negative consequences for bad behavior is a way to guide the child to good behavior.
Your post is very instructive. Without administering the proper form of discipline at the proper time, what is necessary for correction becomes more significant.
I have the same problem with my students. And, of course, as there really is no forms of consequence available in public schools that constitute real discipline (correction)...well...
And yet the Bible says, “He who spares the rod, hates his son”.....
Truth.
I was told that...! But it was for my sin. I was told that Jesus however forgave my sin if I asked for forgiveness and believed and confessed with mouth. I don’t seem to recall being at any church that handled snakes! I knew a lot of Catholic kids my age who were also told that...by ruler to palm slapping nuns! A lot of those kids grew up to be decent people!
A lot of kids were taught the parable of Jesus concerning the beggar Lazarus and the rich man!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.