Posted on 11/11/2015 6:56:46 AM PST by xzins
The big winner was Cruz, and the big loser was Bush. See below.
Just to get started on the right foot, let's state at the outset that "the moderators" could not be the winners of a national debate. They can certainly be the losers, however, if they impede, if they are biased, or if they are infantile. That describes the CNBC moderators and the first Fox News moderators, Kelly/Wallace/Baier. They were losers.
But for moderators to 'win' means we have relegated the issues and the candidates to some kind of back row.
Who were the real winners last night?
I believe it was those who were brutally honest with us: Cruz, Paul, Trump, and Fiorina. I'll not be applauded for two of those names.
The losers were those who played the party line. These are Kasich, Bush, and Rubio.
Carson held his own but still has to turn in his assignment.
Cruz: A+ -- Senator Cruz laid it on the line with every response he gave. It was bold, brutal honesty on display. His points were amazing, and the "journalists crossing the Rio Grande" moment was the score of the night for me. He attacked illegal immigration, called the establishment candidates amnesty supporters, advocated abolishing the IRS, called for the closure of Departments of Commerce, Education, HUD, IRS, and Energy.
Paul: A -- Senator Paul makes some excellent points. It is not conservative to add new entitlement spending, and it isn't conservative to drive the nation to bankruptcy. A great military can only be great if they have the money to train, to research and develop, and to maneuver and operate.
Trump A -- Trump was absolutely brutally honest about illegal immigration. A nation without borders and a nation without laws is not a nation at all. Cruz supported that statement. Trump called China to task for violating trade agreements via money manipulation. While Paul was accurate that China isn't part of the TPP, it is also true that that treaty assumes China as a major partner of the Asian countries who are part of that treaty. Trump sticks to his themes. Some like it, and some don't. But it is disciplined.
Fiorina B+ -- Carly Fiorina was fearless in her attack on the establishment lack of budgeting. She's right on the money about knowing where each dollar is spent. Like her or not -- and some of her canned speeches are OK, but they shouldn't be issued as if they are profound -- she is right about zero based budgeting.
The Losers:
Kasich D -- Kasich is dead wrong on amnesty. Without borders and enforcement of laws we aren't a nation. Even when Kaisch says thoughtful things, he comes across as condescending to us in the audience. He acts as if he is a father instructing children.
Bush F -- Bush lost his ability to speak at one point last night. He could not articulate what he was trying to say. If that had been any of the anti-establishment candidates, it would be all we would hear reported this morning. If it happened in a debate with Hillary, he would be so pilloried in the media that the campaign would be over. And when he's finishing his sentences, even then he sounds so unsure of himself. He came out for amnesty in spades.
Rubio C+ -- You might not have noticed it last night, but Rubio came out for allowing illegal immigrants to stay in this country. He was silent on it during the debate, but said later we should build the wall (lack of courage not to support Trump on that), but then he said we can give everyone a green card for 10 years. IOW, Ten Years After they are citizens. He also wanted to add a new entitlement. I appreciate his regard for the family -- he's right that it's the foundation of society -- but a bankrupt nation doesn't help anyone.
Carson "I" -- Carson gets an incomplete. He didn't really engage beyond his personal story. He stepped carefully with every question, and I'm not sure where he'd actually come down.
As Mark Steyn so pointedly said in a recent Hannity segment: “What is so indispensable about Jeb Bush that we must have 3 Bushes in the last 25 years?”
Did anyone hear anything profound or indispensable come out of his mouth last night? I sure didn’t. But I did hear a quaver of uncertainty when he spoke. And then he lost his ability to even express his thoughts.
No one’s better at setting the table than Fiorina. She describes exactly whats wrong with Washington.
But outside her zero based budgeting proposal - which is common sense - she rarely offers any solutions.
Besides that, she has a record of saying one thing on the stump and leading in a completely different direction.
I could be wrong, but didn’t Cruz support the H1B bill? If he did, is he trying to walk it back now?
I thought everyone did well, especially the moderators. What that means is, I still like who I liked and dislike who a disliked. BUT, I learned some stuff I didn’t know before. That means the biggest winner is the moderators. I think them. They point is to learn things, whether it be things about the candidates positions or the issues themselves.
Hopefully in the polls.
Cruz: A+ — shouldn’t surprise anyone.
Cruz is a highly skilled debator. That means he is far less likely to get steamrolled by consultants than other candidates.
That is also one of Trump’s skills.
And all that Carson bashing over the weekend — which is already unravelling as obvious slanders — what a waste of energy when the debates will clear things up regardless.
Cruz was speaking of borders and illegal immigration last night. He supports legal immigration to include H1B visas. I disagree with him on that, but that wasn’t discussed last night.
The way to defeat Carson is through the issues. And the way to win reg. personal attacks against Carson is to lead in calling for honorable candidates to be treated with honor.
We did have problems with the first two. GW was better than his dad, but there was nothing so outstanding about them that America would be clamoring for another Bush.
The whole point of Brit Hume’s puff piece on GHW Bush this past weekend on Fox News was to say “Bush” in a positive light all weekend long before this debate, and then hope that Jeb did well. Jeb was able to string his sentences together for the most part, but not with strength and assurance, and then he lost his ability to explain himself.
It would have killed any other candidate, but he gets a pass.
I agree that the moderators did their job well. I don’t understand why Cavuto wanted to argue only with Cruz about the Bank America hypothetical. Cruz said he would let it fail. Then Cavuto went all lib and asked incredulously Really? You’d let all those small depositors lose all their assets?” And then wouldn’t allow a follow-up. The natural follow-up of course, is that the small depositors ARE protected by FDIC up to 200K. It is the hogs that get slaughtered.
Plus, Carson said about the same thing that it wouldn’t happen overnight. There are things you could do like let the depositors transfer solid assets to the strong second tier banks and institutions. Let the Goldmans eat their own.
This shows the wisdom of allowing at least 90-second response times in a “debate” like this.
Oldplayer
As said in the article above, moderators can be losers, but they can’t be winners. Otherwise, they should be on the stage with the other candidates.
I rated it exactly like the Drudge Poll turned out. Trump, Cruz, Paul and Rubio.
Trump wins because he’s number one on the leader board and although not as articulate as Cruz he made good points and stood his ground on deportation which smoke Kasich and Bush out in the open for the amnesty pimps they are. Rubio sadly didn’t take the bait.
Cruz was a close second especially after letting Kasich and Bush walk into the amnesty trap and then jump in to back up Trump and shut the door. He is weak on his tax plan which is not going to jumpstart small business. But strong on rooting out corruption and downsizing govt. He named names of agencies he would close.
Paul I give best supporting to for a brisk and timely kibosh on Rubio’s plans to extend the earned income tax credit for an additional Trillion dollars and expanding the defense budget another trillion dollars and call it conservative values. It was a beautiful thing to watch. Rubio almost had a stroke.
Rubio came in fourth for just being a slick talking little weasel. He sounds great until you realize if elected he would be GW Bush’s third term.
Kasich, Bush and Fiorina were washouts. Bush just looks desperate and Kasich and Fiorina are tiresome and preachy.
Carson? Well hopefully he will wander away at some point.
The only two candidates I would consider in 2016 are Trump and Cruz in that order.
He didn’t hurt himself, and the polls are really odd this year.
As many have pointed out, Matt Bevins in Kentucky, who won going away, was said by the polls to be 5 points down only a week before the election.
Something is wrong.
Carly reminds me of a couple of women bosses I worked under. I suppose there is some added pressure for these women to prove themselves, but they end up sounding shrill and condescending. Carly is like that. In an effort to prove herself worthy of the presidency, she has become aggressive rather than assertive. This attitude just would not serve her well as president.
Exactly. Carson’s own positions on illegal immigration, TPP, Puerto Rican statehood, guns, etc. will be his undoing once people really start giving him serious scrutiny.
So far, he had it easy because nobody was looking deeply at his actual positions. A lot of folks were just assuming he’s a Christian (he’s not) and had sympathy for him because of the Politico hit piece. That easy ride ends once his positions become widely known.
I wouldn’t even mind that if she offered substantial solutions. She doesn’t.
H1B and illegal immigration are two entirely different subjects that have nothing to do with each other. And he has come down as wanting to crack down, hard, on those abusing the H1B system.
He’s not Christian?
I talked with a few Jehovas Witnesses over the years. They believe Jesus was crucified on a stake [due to one obscure scripture]. Other than that, what makes them un-Christian?
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