Posted on 06/04/2015 3:27:37 PM PDT by blueunicorn6
22 Veterans kill themselves every day.
Why?
I've seen this figure in print several times.
These are people who were tough enough and strong enough and brave enough and dedicated enough and smart enough to make it through Basic Training, Specialty Skills Training (AIT) and the rigors of military duty.
Yet, they are killing themselves when they get back to the United States.
Why?
The claim is that something horrible happened to them in combat. They have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
OK. Let's for arguments sake accept that every Veteran that commits suicide was involved in one or several horrible incidents.
Why didn't they just kill themselves then, or close afterwards? They had easy access to weapons and ammunition. Why wait until they are back in The United States.
The argument is that time is the culprit. The incidents wear on the Veteran.
OK.
What about the WWII Veterans? Did the Soldiers who saw awful things on the battlefield at the start of the war then kill themselves four years later on a different battlefield?
I've seen no studies showing that.
PTSD is real and it is a problem.
But it's not the only problem.
22 Veterans are killing themselves each day. Their lives were so miserable that the only relief they could see was by killing themselves.
Why?
Time is a factor, but it's not the only factor.
There is more.
It is very convenient for our nation to slap a PTSD diagnosis on someone and give them a couple hundred bucks disability and then walk away.
OK.
But these aren't people who should be so discouraged that they take their own lives. They were tough, resourceful, dedicated, smart.
What happened when they got back home? What did they see and experience here that caused them to end their lives?
If 22 college professors were killing themselves every day, the country would start a war on suicide.
But, they're just Veterans.
Thank you for your service.
And for putting up with all that BS.
I bet the last 7 years under Obama as CinC have been brutal.
BINGO!!!
The whole “let’s make up for the abuses of Veterans from Vietnam” generation is what is driving this recent public condition of the “pity parade”...
Sure, let’s appreciate the sacrifices of todays Vets, and show a little pride, instead of the “pity” some feel is the best medicine these days...
Don’t create an environment where the future of our armed forces are going to be coddled and medicated on their discharge because they might have seen something horrible and we need to pity that person...
No one will want to volunteer for service if that is our future...
Or maybe that “is” the desired end result???
All “tin foil hat” kidding aside...
It sucks now. Especially in leadership positions. You just can’t voice your true opinions. They’re teaching/conditioning field-grade officers (I’m one of them) to be PC pussies. It’s endless from accepting/promoting homos, females in Ranger School, zero religious tolerance (unless Muslim), etc.
It’s a sad state of affairs and besides missing my brothers-in-arms, I won’t look back at all.
Well, you kinda were...But you didn’t define the terms...
But that is ok...I’m not really trying to bust yer chops so much...
I am in agreement with SmoothSailing in #31...
I believe the rate is fairly equal between the two prime groupings...From a statistical standpoint it is equal in my opinion...
So are we to pity anyone who chooses to volunteer to serve our country in the armed services, and who may obtain a status of Veteran upon their discharge, and thus be subjected to this increased counseling and labeling at the slightest indications of stress, a label of “PTSD” and thus medicate them into oblivion???
I would prefer not to...I think an army of Veterans to counsel Veterans is the best medicine...Leave the psycho babbling hug-monkeys to their stuffy offices and “I Love Me” walls of academic accolades...
I just retired from the Army National Guard after a lot of years and three deployments including two in Iraq (Infantry, outside the wire just for the record). I’ve had to deal with a number of these cases.
One thing that I found striking was the number of suicides who had never deployed, and of those who did, the number who never went outside the wire.
On each of the cases I am familiar with, there were other major issues:
One (deployed, combat vet) was a school teacher who had just been charged with inappropriate contact with a (teen) student;
One (never deployed) was a ‘golden child’ from a prominent family background who had just been arrested for shoplifting;
One (deployed, no combat) had just had a very noisy argument with his wife;
One (never deployed, just back from basic training) hung himself in his parents’ basement;
One (deployed, combat vet) shot himself after getting his 3rd DWI;
One (deployed, no combat) attempted – long term alcoholic whose body started breaking down so he decided to end it (That was one that I got there in time).
There are very complex reasons that generally contain a lot more than ‘served in the military’ or ‘served in combat’.
I don’t discount the idea that we have moved steadily away from belief in a higher power that 1) we are accountable to (suicide is a sin), and 2) that can help us through our problems through prayer and guidance.
I also agree with the poster above who is sick of and sees little use in the constant barrage of suicide briefs.
If I understand you correctly, I agree that treating veterans as if they’re guaranteed mentally ill and medicating them is a bad idea, and that peer support is one of the best ways to help those who have been significantly traumatized. On the other hand, if the incidence of suicide is significantly higher among veterans than among comparable non-veterans, it’s worth looking at the contributing factors and trying to reduce them.
For example, for all suicides, there’s a strong correlation with divorce/relationship breakup, substance abuse, and (other than teenagers) high levels of debt. If those factors are more common among veterans than among comparable non-veterans, then the DoD, the VA, private groups, or all of the above could work with active duty personnel and veterans on relationship skills, substance-abuse prevention, and financial management.
You called the info “BS”???
Which implies you consider numbers (actual or educated guesses) to not mean anything...
As (also) your threat means absolutely nothing to me...
It is rather shameful on your part Sarge...
That qualifies as an epidemic.
I can't even wrap my mind around it, it just seems impossible that the figure could be that high.
I wonder how long this trend has existed.
Did the Soldiers who saw awful things on the battlefield at the start of the war then kill themselves four years later on a different battlefield?
No, but many of them came back home and killed themselves later.
While you are on the job you are on the job. It is only later when you try to forget the job and find that it is not possible that you begin to despair.
Fair enough...I believe you and I are on the same page...
No offense was ever intended, only a general sense of clarification was needed when I asked you for that...
Obviously SgtBob is going to be a hard nut to crack...He, like a few others do not immediately see what it is that I have seen and dealt with...And I have little time, or need to itemize out my credentials, nor would I expect anyone that does not know me personally, outside the Texas board, to believe any of my past experiences...
See post 29 or 31. The analysis in that article reports a figure of <1 per day, with caveats about incomplete information.
I don’t have anything personal to fuss over. I’m just task-oriented. If suicide of veterans is a problem - and all suicide is a “problem” - then nothing useful can be done without correctly identifying the scope of the problem and some of its major features.
I was a typist with the DoD when I was in college, fwiw ;-).
That’s a great list...
Sub-definitions based upon two categories of “deployed” and “not deployed”...
The last person you noted there was a good save...You did well...
No prob...;-)
I agree all suicide is a problem...The treatments in these cases is what I believe is attributing to the end result we see in the numbers...
The types of medications they are prescribing to Vets these days is horrendous, it lowers inhibitions in an otherwise trained and experienced mind, and therefore eating a bullet, or sucking on carbon monoxide fumes looks to people under the influence to be a way out...
This trend needs to be stopped but cold...
Just my opinion...
There’s considerable evidence showing that psychoactive drugs are contributing to suicide as well as violence among many demographics. I think medicines that mess with your brain ought to be used very cautiously.
It was suggested to me, after one interview, that I should go on antidepressants, because I was unhappy over an abusive relationship. Quicker and easier than trying to do something about the relationship! Fortunately for me, I wasn’t having any.
Soldiers are trained to survive. The need to survive is pounded into them.
Yet, all that training goes out the window when they get back to the United States?
Why?
There is no implied, or otherwise threat to you. Learn to read. I posted for you not to put words in my mouth. I never said it was a “numbers game”, ass waggon.
I’m calling BS because unicorn gave no info or stats. Ages, time of, and time in service....kind of important.
PTSD ain’t the only factor in Veteran suicide. Last year I talked a fellow Veteran off the ledge. He is now 82, an F86 jockey in Korea, and F4s in Vietnam. His wife left him.
You and I can agree one one thing...one person taking their own life is one too many...we can’t stop it.
That said, shame on you for being an ass waggon....jus’ sayin’.
LA Times article from January 15, 2015, is just one source of many.
Bump
Active Duty/Vet ping.
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