Debate between Plant based and Paleo Diets

youtube.com ^ | Colin Campbell MD

[RichardMoore]

Debate between plant based diet and Paleo diet.

[Pharmboy]

He’s a fraud. Been invested in high carb diet for fifty years. Hard to get away from the fact that the natural diet for our species is very very different from what he recommends. Two and a half million years as hunter gatherers is a very stubborn fact. Read books by Boyd Eaton and/or Loren Cordain.

[CatherineofAragon]

"No...the addition of the husk to the carbohydrates adds fiber and some vitamins; BUT the bad carb calories are still there. Don’t believe the white hype—too many carbs are all bad, no matter what color."

That's right.

That's right. I have a friend who is overweight and who loves carb-heavy foods. For a long time, she believed all she needed to do was cut out the white carbs. I explained to her that if she wants to lose weight, she needs to limit all carbs. She has finally begun to do that.

It's hard for her, I'll say that...unfortunately, she isn't much of a meat lover. I've heard that it's possible to be addicted to carbs; I don't know if that's true. If it is, maybe her body will get used to getting by on less of them and eventually adjust.

[Texan5]

“I’ve heard that it’s possible to be addicted to carbs”

I believe that is true-my cub was brought up on the same food her dad and I-both brought up on a ranch-had eaten all our lives. She was always at a healthy weight until she left for college, then she was eating dorm food, and 35-40 lbs. overweight.

She lost the weight, got married-now the weight is back, her husband grills his own meat for dinner because she is having a meatless pasta or rice dish with carb-loaded sauce to go with salad or veggies-he eats the salad or veggies and the meat he cooks. She is constantly baking and eating the cake, pie, cupcakes she bakes-but she eats store-bought bread.

She is obviously upset over her weight, talks about losing weight but does nothing about it-she admits to being at least 40 pounds overweight-her husband is a carpenter, buff and healthy, and has made veiled threats about her weight and what he calls her constant bad mood. I’m totally convinced she is addicted to the sugar and carbs...

[Pharmboy]

There are good data supporting an actual addiction.

Click here for an excellent review.

[Texan5]

Fascinating, thank you-and the data is presented in a reasonable manner-nothing fad-ish. I copied it to send to the cub-but not until she is serious about losing weight-and going back to healthy eating...

[southern rock]

Read books by Boyd Eaton and/or Loren Cordain.

I'll pass on the paleo propaganda.

I 'll sick with the whole food-plant based diet. With plenty of whole grains, thank you.

[CatherineofAragon]

That was very interesting reading. Pretty persuasive, I’ll admit.

[CatherineofAragon]

I hope your daughter will overcome her problem. Maybe she just needs to get to the point where she’s done being overweight and truly ready to do something about it. It would probably help if her husband could be supportive.

If she could plan her menus, make a grocery list and stick to it when she goes shopping, that could help, IMO. You can’t eat carb-heavy foods if you don’t have them in the house...on the other hand, if they’re in the pantry, you’re tempted.

[Pharmboy]

The whole grain/high carb propaganda (and this is REALLY propaganda) has made more obese and diabetic Americans, and killed more Americans than any other diet. It has been a disaster...even the NY Times has figured it out, with their Carb Queen Jane Brody still there.

[southern rock]

Do you think I would stick with a plan if it caused me to gain weight? Really? I would love to see what all these paleo devotees who claim how thin and fit they have become REALLY look like. I'll bet their bodies are a mess. Inside and out.

Paleo is just discredited Atkins nonsense and pushed by the meat and dairy industries. Fine. Have it, along with eventual cancer and heart disease. Keep eating your dietary cholesterol. Your bacon , eggs, milk, beef and pork. I'll never go back to any of that. I know how much better I feel now. Like I said. BEST thing I have ever done for myself.

[Focault's Pendulum]

If we had all stay herbivores, we could of all stayed naked, sitting in a tree, eating a banana, and flinging our poop and each other

I eat red meat, chicken, seafood, and I still like flinging poop at a few people.

[CatherineofAragon]

Jane Brody! I haven’t thought of her in ages. I remember leafing through the newspaper as a kid and seeing her column.

Out of curiosity, I searched her name. It seems she was diagnosed with high cholesterol, so she went even lower fat and higher carb than normal in an effort to cure it. The more she did so, the higher her cholesterol climbed. But I doubt she ever really learned anything.

[CatherineofAragon]

"Do you think I would stick with a plan if it caused me to gain weight? Really? I would love to see what all these paleo devotees who claim how thin and fit they have become REALLY look like. I'll bet their bodies are a mess. Inside and out. "

Dang, southernrock, it almost sounds as if you hope that's the case. Vindictive much?

[Pharmboy]

There are well-informed, disciplined people like you who can do well on a high carb diet; Jane Brody is their queen and Colin Campbell their king. HOWEVER, for the vast majority of people, low carb is the way to go. Have a look at the two graphs below:

As you can see, in the late 1970s when the food companies and the people of the US began listening to the low fat Nazis and changed foods to low fat and began extolling high carb intakes, we became fatter as a country than ever before. And, increases in pre-diabetes and diabetes have, of course, followed.

Please allow me to make a few more points. In countries like India and China--up until about 20 years ago--they ate mostly carbs, with a bit of protein and fat. They were fine; BUT, when more protein and fat was added to their diets more recently (i.e., they became Westernized), obesity and diabetes have skyrocketed. India, for example, now has the highest rate of increase in diabetes in the world. So, it appears to be the combination of high carbs and high fat that is the bad actor.

Here is an article from JAMA that shows the beneficial metabolic effects of a low carb diet compared to others.

Best,
Pb

[Pharmboy]

Yep...that’s her! She wrote a high carb book also. See my latest post just above, please.

[RichardMoore]

Apparently the study you are referring to, said that we need 10 essential amino acids. But it was done on rats, we need 8 and you can get them from a plant based diet. You can live on potatoes. Maybe a little meat won’t kill you, after all most people the world over don’t eat much meat, certainly not as much as we Americans.

[RichardMoore]

Most vegetarians that I know still eat cheese, which is basically the same as meat but with more fat.

[RichardMoore]

How old are you? The cholesterol that builds up in your arteries usually takes over when you hit your 50’s.

[RichardMoore]

And just how long did those hunter/gatherers live? And what did they die of?

[dalereed]

BS, you’re just trying to justify your antihuman diet!