Posted on 05/24/2013 6:35:28 PM PDT by Kevmo
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1563 ... ity-of-gas
Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas By Sebastian Anthony on May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm 338 Comments
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Against all probability, a device that purports to use cold fusion to generate vast amounts of power has been verified by a panel of independent scientists. The research paper, which hasn’t yet undergone peer review, seems to confirm both the existence of cold fusion, and its potency: The cold fusion device being tested has roughly 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline. Even allowing for a massively conservative margin of error, the scientists say that the cold fusion device they tested is 10 times more powerful than gasoline — which is currently the best fuel readily available to mankind.
The device being tested, which is called the Energy Catalyzer (E-Cat for short), was created by Andrea Rossi. Rossi has been claiming for the past two years that he had finally cracked cold fusion, but much to the chagrin of the scientific community he hasn’t allowed anyone to independently analyze the device — until now. While it sounds like the scientists had a fairly free rein while testing the E-Cat, we should stress that they still don’t know exactly what’s going on inside the sealed steel cylinder reactor. Still, the seven scientists, all from good European universities, obviously felt confident enough with their findings to publish the research paper.
As for what’s happening inside the cold fusion reactor, Andrea Rossi and his colleague Sergio Focardi have previously said their device works by infusing hydrogen into nickel, transmuting the nickel into copper and releasing a large amount of heat. While Rossi hasn’t provided much in the way of details — he’s a very secretive man, it seems — we can infer some knowledge from NASA’s own research into cold fusion. Basically, hydrogen ions (single protons) are sucked into a nickel lattice (pictured right); the nickel’s electrons are forced into the hydrogen to produce neutrons; the nickel nuclei absorb these neutrons; the neutrons are stripped of their electrons to become protons; and thus the nickel goes up in atomic number from 28 to 29, becoming copper.
This process, like the “conventional” fusion of hydrogen atoms into helium, produces a lot of heat. (See: 500MW from half a gram of hydrogen: The hunt for fusion power heats up.) The main difference, though, is that the cold fusion process (also known as LENR, or low energy nuclear reaction) produces very slow moving neutrons which don’t create ionizing radiation or radioactive waste. Real fusion, on the other hand, produces fast neutrons that decimate everything in their path. In short, LENR is fairly safe — safe enough that NASA dreams of one day putting a cold fusion reactor in every home, car, and plane. Nickel and hydrogen, incidentally, are much cheaper and cleaner fuels than gasoline.
As far as we can tell, the main barrier to cold fusion — as with normal fusion — is producing more energy than you put in. In NASA’s tests, it takes a lot more energy to fuse the nickel and hydrogen than is produced by the reaction. Rossi, it would seem, has discovered a secret sauce that significantly reduces the amount of energy required to start the reaction. As for what the secret sauce is, no one knows — in the research paper, the independent scientists simply refer to it as “unknown additives.” All told, the E-Cat seems to have a power density of 4.4×105 W/kg, and an energy density of 5.1×107 Wh/kg.
If Rossi and Focardi’s cold fusion technology turns out to be real — if the E-Cat really has 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline — then the world will change, very, very quickly. Stay tuned; we’ll let you know when — or if — the E-Cat passes peer review.
Now read: Nuclear power is our only hope, or, the greatest environmentalist hypocrisy of all time
Research paper: arXiv:1305.3913 - “Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device”
oh yippeeee and stuff.
...the Luddites failed in their efforts...
True.
But Rossi’s claim, whether he likes me paraphrasing him or not, is “LOOK! I’ve invented the greatest thing since fire!”
Well, then, fire up the barbie, dude! We’ll get some marshmallows and steaks and hot dogs!
Or he can just keep yanking everyones chain.
His choice. But the longer it takes to get revealed, the more huckster he is looking.
Sounds like Pixie Dust to me. REAL Pixie Dust, not the movie type Pixie Dust.
A serious question.
Is that 10K X figure based on the energy a gasoline powered motor produces, or the actual energy available from a quantity of gasoline?
Where did you see anyone touting 'free energy' on this thread? I'm pretty sure that hasn't been part of this ongoing conversation.
For nickle it's about 650 degrees F. The verification paper showed temperatures on the order of +1800 degrees F.
So the question of what was happening to the nickle is a pertinent one. Since copper melts at just a few more degrees what was happening to the copper by products?
The lack of curiosity evidenced in the Rossi camp is amazing to say the least.
Well, as far as Rossi goes, the cat’s outa the bag. He needs to either put up or shut up and completely disappear off the face of the Earth.
There are many people who have put their faith in him. Who have backed him and promoted his ideas. It’s only natural that they would be ready to string him up by the short ones if this turns out to be an elaborate hoax.
This is hugh and series, and I’m not kiddin!
It is my opinion that the excess heat and transmutations shown in the better controlled experiments (such as coming from SRI international) points to energy being drawn from the zero point field, the euphemistically named vacuum. Have you an opinion, other than a ridiculing smarmy one?
So now hook up the verified water heater and get the steam turbines rolling, no more excuses.
Until he releases detailed specifications about how to build it and reproduce the results, this is not science. It is snake oil.
***Nonsense. Power in. Power out. 10,000 times more power density than gasoline. Rossi can’t release the detailed specs because he can’t get a patent. He is no scientist, he’s an engineer.
And don’t take this the wrong way, I am as hopeful as anyone, but you can repeat the 10,000 number until you are blue in the face, that by itself doesn’t add to Rossi’s credibility (or lack thereof).
***It sure as hell does. No one else on the planet can lay claim to that kind of controlled energy production. The tests were done when he wasn’t even in the room.
Besides, you are the one who chose ‘chat’, correct?
***Because the skeptopaths whined when I put it in news.
“They”, “we”, “behind”, “denigrate”, “look down”.... and you wonder why the MODS pull your threads?
***Duuuude. Seriously. If you consider that worthy of thread pulling, if such comments even register a blip for you, then FRee Republic aint for you. I would suggest, instead, the children’s site
http://www.goldfishfun.com/default.aspx
Look... the topic of ‘free energy’ is just going to be controversial.
***Then it makes sense to post this stuff to the smoky backroom.
Let’s get back to some basics, if you don’t mind.
***Glad to.
In the meanwhile, I'll be using it to heat my unicorn stall.
The question is not whether they can measure but what are they measuring? How can they know?
***They are measuring power and heat. I mean, come on. This isn’t too hard to grasp. People have been accurately measuring both for over a century.
I’ve only pointed out why this “verification” is hardly more than a rubber stamp for a convicted con man since the observers are basically doing nothing more than taking temperatures (none has said they weren’t competent to do that)and measure heat output.
***You are right, these are very basic measurements and no one is going to trust Rossi when he says it’s 10,000 times more energy density than gasoline.
As for the “it’s a secret” ploy....that’s what NDA’s are for, besides these are people of integrity (an assumption not extended to me!) aren’t they???
***NDAs are worthless for trade secrets that can be simply stolen and sold out the back door for $billions. The thief says simply, “so sue me”. It costs him a $million, but he makes $3billion. A worthwhile tradeoff.
I’ve only pointed out why this “verification” is hardly more than a rubber stamp for a convicted con man since the observers are basically doing nothing more than taking temperatures (none has said they weren’t competent to do that)and measure heat output.
***You are right, these are very basic measurements and no one is going to trust Rossi when he says it’s 10,000 times more energy density than gasoline.
As for the “it’s a secret” ploy....that’s what NDA’s are for, besides these are people of integrity (an assumption not extended to me!) aren’t they???
***NDAs are worthless for trade secrets that can be simply stolen and sold out the back door for $billions. The thief says simply, “so sue me”. It costs him a $million, but he makes $3billion. A worthwhile tradeoff.
Until he GIVES PEOPLE A DEVICE, and lets them TAKE IT OFFSITE, TEST IT, and DISASSEMBLE IT, I don’t believe it.
If I made a claim that I had a triceratops in my backyard, but I refused to let anyone see it, then NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND could find fault with people who were skeptical because I refused to let them see it.
The burden of proof is on Rossi.
Plain and simple.
And it is STILL unproven!
It’s just that I don’t believe that those ‘in power’ around the world want CHEAP ABUNDANT ENERGY.
***Maybe, maybe not. Some countries that are ‘out of power’ like in Africa would love to get cheap abundant energy. If we end up with a situation where LENR is being implemented all across Africa and not here in America, there will be some major smuggling going on. Eventually, those ‘in power’ would get circumvented.
If you add up the energy required to create a gallon of gas
***No, you don’t. You simply test the system as it is presented to you. That’s what black box testing is. Under those conditions, this LENR device has 10,000 times more energy density than gasoline. Very very simple measurements.
Why do you put three asterisks at the beginning of your sentences?
***To designate my responses. You ‘seem’ to put in quotes to add in a sarcastic note to what you write.
you keep insisting that this has been ‘independently verified’ by 7 scientists, and there seems to be considerable proof that these 7 scientists are not really ‘independent’.
***Proof? Baloney. I’ve posted their CVs and the only thing any skeptopath said was to stop spamming. Where is the proof you claim?
Yet you claim to trust the invention of a man who has been proven to have made falsified claims in the past. Is this not true ?
***No, I do not trust Rossi, he’s too untrustworthy. But I do trust these 7 scientists, the Swedish Industrial group, the fact that the Anomalous Heat Effect was replicated more than 14,700 times before Rossi ever arrived on the scene, and various other facts within LENR. I didn’t post an article about Rossi for over a year. Now he is getting vindicated ( quite a bit late on his promise of independent verification, but still it is independent). Rossi wasn’t even there for the bulk of these tests. If he’s a con artist, he’s by far the most ingenious in history.
When a truly extraordinary claim is made I want to see behind the curtain.
***Everyone has that desire, and it is an understandable desire. But it should not stop you from discussing the evidence that you DO have right in front of you.
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