Posted on 03/14/2013 8:11:08 AM PDT by ksen
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-system-cost
http://truecostblog.com/2009/05/13/how-much-would-universal-healthcare-cost/
The death panels are a REAL part of Gov’t single payer care.
Medical care is a SERVICE, provided by people. They need paid. They are not slaves and healthcare (nor auto care, nor food nor homes) is NOT a right.
And you have no right to present ME with YOUR bills for any of it. That is what that poster is saying.
Well for one thing it can’t be cheaper because you add administrative overhead. Once you start pooling money somebody has to be in charge of it, and they gotta get paid. But even if we found a way around that basic rule of finance you still get the main problem of single payer which is on display in New York, it puts the government in charge of the people. Once the government starts paying for your healthcare they now have a vested interest in your lifestyle decisions.
Hell no, no way would I be tied to a system where I would have to go to a public hospital or the doctors that practice there.
That particular function is a duly prescribed function OF FedGov. HealthCare is NOT. See?
And by cheaper I mean overall.
I guarantee, no matter 'what' this new 'system of health care' is..... it will cost MORE. Remember HMO's and PPO's ? Did the cost of health insurance go down when they started using that system? Did we get 'better' health care for the money ?
Of course in a single payer system taxes would have to go up to pay for it...
Taxes are going up just to pay for creating/managing/planning the new system, and you can plan on doctors raising their fees to cover for dealing with all the new paperwork and government regulations on top of the start up costs.
... but personal out of pocket expenses would go down ...
WHEN has that EVER happened when dealing with something run by the Federal Government ???
... as people wouldn't have to worry about paying for their medical on their own.
That is, as long as you don't mind not getting any actual 'health care'. If you want the same kind of care that, say, our Senators and Congressmen get, or that the well to do get, you will have to pay for it, and it won't be cheap.
No they don't.
Pharmaceutical R&D – its cost and what it delivers
Data from companies, the United States National Science Foundation, and government reports indicate that companies have been spending only 1.3% of revenues on basic research to discover new molecules, net of taxpayer subsidies. More than four fifths of all funds for basic research to discover new drugs and vaccines come from public sources.
Pharmaceutical Companies Spent 19 Times More On Self-Promotion Than Basic Research: Report
my premiums go up....my deductibles go up....my choices are skimmed down...
I pay more in taxes but more for MY own care because I am subsidizing all the people mentioned above...
if the govt workers had to pay the same as I do for health care with single payer, maybe I'd be for it..
France has the best “government” healthcare precisely because they do utilze private insurance markets and have more room for innovation.
Pure single payer as in Britain is a nightmare.
They should have stopped the thread with your post. Not really much other need for discussion, frankly.
This is one area where you and I agree....the pharmaceutical companies privatize the profits and socialize the expenses.
Please don't take this as a 'personal attack', but you must be insane if you believe it will cost us 'less'.
Let me ask you this.... Since the 'government' will be 'paying' for our 'health care' (don't laugh too hard....), do you think that employers will give us huge raises to make up for the 'cut' in costs for health care that both the employer and employee were footing the bill for, and that was considered part of the 'salary' ?
At least most Canadians are honest enough to tell you that their health care is not “free”. They pay taxes out the wazoo for it. The best they have to say for it is that it keeps anybody from going bankrupt and losing their house due to medical bills.
You SURE do know how to get on my good side! ;-)
The elderly are costly to care for, and without the strong arm of the government, there is no reason for health insurance companies to accept them.
No question... the government already IS in charge of the elderly. We're surely not going to change that.
But, even the government COULD apply the principles of a high deductible plant to Medicare. Offer older people MONEY each year.. that, if they DON'T spend on health care, they CAN use on other things. Then, I believe you will have fewer elder scheduling monthly visits to their Doctor, just so they have some place to go and someone to talk to. My wife worked for a private practive physician. They had a NUMBER of such patients.
The issue is not health INSURANCE....especially as currently mis-defined. Healthcare insurance should be for the purpose of guarding against catastrophic health issues and caring for those with pre-existing conditions so that they are not economic slaves to their plight. The issue is healthcare delivery.
Healthcare costs have risen 9% per year for nearly 30 years. That’s a clean double every 8 or so years. That far, far outpaces inflation. Whatever method is used to cost-shift these egregious and monopolistically-driven costs is just cost shifting, and the gov’t is the worst executor of cost shifting in recorded history. Under the guise of “caring for all”, the gov’t wants to take control of this huge fraction of the economy because it knows the “rake” off this giant economic transfer will be in itself astronomical.
And how did you conclude that the government cares about providing healthcare, rather than accumulating power? For bonus points, explain why an entity that gives us the miracle of indian health service, and post office, the VA medical system, and which funds BOTH sides of the tobacco wars,,, should be placed in charge? If someone is motivated by a profit motive, they want to please the patient.
government sees the patient as a cost, and is upset by a patients demands. The government has no motive to provide service that please the patient.
I want choice and competition in the market place to buy what I want......................
So far I’ve been the only one actually providing facts in this thread so . . .
WBill Jr fell a couple of years ago and split his scalp open. Nasty wound, lots of blood as these things tend to have. No local "Emergicare" places were open, so we wound up in the ER. (Head Injuries are always problematic with small kids, so the hospital was likely the best place to be anyway, but I digress....)
Out of the dozen or so people who were there, I could make an argument that my kid was the only one who likely should have been there. Most were - like you say, the Martinez extended family - with assorted sniffles and sore throats. Older lady next to us was complaining of chest pains, so I kept half a lookout on her, until the doc asked how long the chest pains had been going on.
....her response? "Five days. I just don't want to bother my regular doctor." So, I said nevermind and forgot about her. WBill Jr got stitched up, we all watched him for a few hours to be sure everything was OK (it was) and off we went.
And that was just a slow weekday summer evening, in a small town ER. Multiply by what? Nationwide, a 1000? On a daily basis? And that will give an idea of how broken the system really is. And Obamacare will only increase demand while decreasing supply. Truly, this will be a nightmare.
LOL... I've lived through FAR WORSE personal attacks than that. :-)
It's easy to save money when you ration care. Death panels absolutely WOULD save us money. But, you're probably right... forgive my momentary loss of sanity. In reality, we'd likely get rationing, and crappier care, and STILL be paying MORE for it.
As for whether companies will give us a raise? SURE they will. They'll drop the $16k they pay for my health care, give me a $4k raise... (of which, the goverment will take $2200) and then tell me I'm "Better off for it". :-(
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