Posted on 02/13/2012 7:41:48 PM PST by djf
For most of us, our home is our refuge. There is even an old proverb: a man’s home is his castle. But what happens if there is an intruder? Or worse, an intruder whose intent is bodily harm toward you or your family members regardless of the reason? How would you defend yourself and, more specifically, would you shoot someone? Could you shoot someone?
I have struggled with the answer to these questions and more, because, if there were a collapse of society – a true SHTF situation – there is a strong likelihood that I would be placed in a position to defend myself, my homestead and my stuff. And therein lies the problem. I am not at all sure I could shoot someone. As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure I could not.
There, I said it. For in spite of the fact that we have shopped for a suitable weapon for someone of my size and gender, and in spite of the fact I have researched classes and shooting ranges where I could practice and become proficient, I personally do not think I could not do it.
And you know what? My informal poll of others – both men and women – has told me that about 50% of us – if we dig down deep – feel the same way. I could not shoot with the intent to harm.
Sure, I know that shooting someone is not the question. The question really is “Can you safely defend yourself and your family against a life threatening situation or attack?” And if the answer is “I don’t know” or even “No”, then you have a problem. I know I do.
From the way I see it, we have three basic issues:
What are the circumstances where we should use extreme force to defend ourselves? Will I end up in jail or prison for exercising my right to defend myself and my family? How do I defend myself especially if I am uncomfortable around guns?
What are the circumstances where we should use extreme force to defend ourselves?
In my mind, you are justified in using force – lethal or otherwise – against another human being if, and only if, there is immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person. So by my definition, someone stealing my stuff does not qualify. Neither would revenge for something that happened yesterday.
Breaking this down, this means that the threat would have to be now, not yesterday and not tomorrow. “I am going to come and get you tomorrow” would not qualify by my definition.
Will I end up in jail or prison for exercising my right to defend myself and my family?
Good question. The answer is maybe. There is something called the Castle Doctrine that dictates, on a state by state basis, the circumstances where you can legally defend yourself from bodily harm. Notice that I said bodily harm and not destruction or theft of property.
Castle doctrine derives from English Common Law, and broadly affirms that the lawful occupants of a dwelling has the right to use force, up to and including deadly force, to protect against attack. Depending on individual state law, Castle Doctrine generally applies only if you have a “reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm” to yourself or to others.
Like I said, Castle Doctrine varies from state to state and some states have something called “Stand Your Ground” instead. Still, as a generalization, protections offered include the following:
Reinforced right to use deadly force: You have the right to use deadly force if you have an immediate and reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. In some cases, the “reasonable fear” is presumed if someone attempts to make a forcible and unlawful entry into your residence or, in some states, vehicle.
No duty to retreat: The laws generally reinforce your right to “stand your ground” when attacked, rather than having to attempt to flee, provided you reasonably believe force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury and provided you are lawfully in the place you occupy.
Immunity from criminal prosecution: In cases of justifiable use of deadly force, police or other law enforcement authorities may generally investigate but not arrest you unless they find probable cause that the force used was unlawful.
Immunity from civil action: In cases of justifiable use of deadly force, a plaintiff (e.g. the family of the perpetrator) is barred from civil action and may be required to pay attorney’s fees and court costs from bringing such action against you.
How do I defend myself especially if I am uncomfortable around guns?
Okay, here are the choices that I have come up with in no particular order:
Chemical Sprays (pepper spray , bear spray, wasp killer) Martial arts Firearms (shotgun, rifle, pistol) Battering devices (batons, fireplace pokers, baseball bats) Stun Guns If SHTF, Could You and Would You Shoot Someone? Knives Avoidance (hiding, running away)
6205322443 31d7429d25 If SHTF, Could You and Would You Shoot Someone?I do want to note that most self defense instructors will say that avoiding, or running away or even hiding from the danger or confrontation is by far the best thing to do. Unfortunately, that may not always be a viable and safe option.
For me, having a combination of these self-defense mechanisms is best. This will allow both Survival Husband and myself to choose the very best option particular to the threat and our personal comfort lever (again “to shoot” or “not to shoot”).
Summary
Ask yourself if you are ready for the chaos created by SHTF, in whatever form it might take. Also think about putting together a “SHTF Self Defense and Intruder Safety Plan”.
Here are some tips to get started:
1. The first step is to talk to your spouse, partner and/or other family members about your individual feelings a toward guns, knives and other self defense weapons. This is not the time for BS. It is best to be honest with yourself now, before the need to defend yourself is called in to action.
2. Examine some what-if scenarios and think about what additional information you need in order to become comfortable with your plan and with a possible “shoot” or don’t shoot” decision.
3. Invest in the gear and the skills you know you will use and then learn how to use them. The gear and skills that you select for one family member may be different than those chosen for another family member. One may choose a firearm and the other may choose a combination of chemical sprays and martial arts.
4. Respect the skills and mindset of your family members or others in your household. There is no right and no wrong.
5. Educate yourself regarding the Castle Doctrine Laws in your state and use them as a guideline in formulating your plan. Keep in mind, however, that if there is a SHTF situation, there may no longer be a government so any existing laws or rules may not apply.
The Final Word
The more you think about these things in advance, the more confident you will become in your ability to make a good decision under stress when defending yourself and your loved ones is the only choice your have.
To learn more about the Castle Doctrine Laws specific to your state, visit this link: The Castle Doctrine.
Enjoy your next adventure through common sense and thoughtful preparation!
Gaye
When the moment arrives, there will be no time for self-doubt. Rehearse your response far, far in advance and make a plan. Go thru your plan enough times that it becomes rote.
Then, when the time arrives, act without hesitation. Grab, aim, fire. Then sit down, open a cold one and toast yourself and those you saved.
You are correct. Mental rehearsal, as lifelike as possible, can be a very useful preparation for emergency situations.
Only if my dog gets off their throat long enough to give me a clear shot....
Being a Catholic, yes, I could, would, and have a moral duty to protect myself, and others. It would be an act of will guided by moral clarity.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Self-defense. Killing another in self-defense is morally
permissible. The Catechism (2265) states: “Legitimate
defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for
someone responsible for another’s life, the common
good of the family or of the state.”
Hell, I’ve killed people I wasn’t even mad at.
Lets look at your choices and the consequences of your choices, that it all that matters after all, is what is the out come of our actions.
If the SHTF and someone is running at you or yours with a gun or knife and you do nothing, well then, you, and yours die. Happy? Ok so that one is easy.
Someone has a big stick or lead pipe. They don’t hit you with it but take your teenage daughter from you and proceed to lock you in a room. Now can you pull the trigger?
Ok the SHTF and stores are empty and someone breaks into your home to steal your food. You can’t replace the food. When it is gone you die. He doesn’t have a weapon but tells you he is taking the food and there is nothing you can do about it. Are you going to let him go and you and your family just starve to death in a few days? Pull the trigger.
Someone is stealing your car which you used your gasoline storage to fill and the gas stations are closed or empty. You don’t want to get blood on your car any more than you want to get it on your carpet, but without the car you die. Pull the trigger.
When someone is coming to do me or my family harm I don’t have to think twice for an excuse to rid the world of the problem this person is. Perhaps if you kill one you will get a reputation and the rest of the bums will leave you alone.
When The SHTF there won’t be a lot of legal questions to answer, John law will have his hand busy if he is still getting paid and is still working.
Remember it is always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
It has to be understood, in an out of control situation, no police officer is going to respond to a dangerous situation alone. Every single day, I pray that every prepper looked at the videos and responses that happened during the Rodney King riots, and noted what responses one can expect from law enforcement and emergency services.
First, a fire engine won't respond without police escort. Period. End of discussion. It's not going to happen. They will sit back blocks away and watch a building go up in flames while awaiting that police escort. Ambulances responded more often than not, though on the ground, I heard more than a few crews instruct the injured, or those who were helping the injured, where to take them to meet up with the ambulance, as they weren't entering some of the no go zones.
Second: Operational security. DO NOT attempt to seek any form of aid from command and control centers or encampments. Aid will not be rendered, and direct force will likely be the response to any attempt to push the issue. Going to a hospital means you're going to a triage center, and if you're not bleeding out, you're likely going to be told to sit and wait for a day or more. If you are, you'll be given a bandage first.
Knowing this, I don't think that the agonizing moral choice that the author is examining means anything. It is convenient and thought provoking to examine such questions outside of an actual emergency situation, but when faced with these realistic scenarios, I don't think someone can prepare for a disaster and not have the abilities to actually deal with the consequences of that disaster.
Yes, home defense on a day to day basis is a completely different matter. And I can understand this type of introspective thinking. But if the last view you had was of the newsroom of the local television station telling you that the national guard expects to have the situation well in hand within 10 days, you will likely make the instant transition to being the protector of the family. That means even if blood sickens you, you'll likely sew someone up if seriously wounded. Or you'll use that firearm to defend yourself and your property, no matter what idiot laws there are in the state over the use of deadly force.
A prepper’s stash is only high value once everything else has lost value. Someone breaks into your storeroom today, they might steal guns or camping equipment, but they're going to leave behind the 25 pound containers of dried beans or rice. In an emergency, those containers are worth a good fraction of their weight in gold.
I view the author's questions the same way. Would they use deadly force to protect a bucket of beans? Not today. But if that bucket is your family's food source for the next week, you better believe that defense of that food now becomes an imperative.
I'm not dismissive of the questions either. Knowing these answers ahead of time can help you deal with the aftermath of facing those questions for real. And having less than lethal options on hand might be a great idea, but don't even think about selling that shotgun because you think you might not be able to use it - in most cases, the only way to be sure that you won't be able to use it is to make sure it's not there in the first place.
I would suggest to practice in the dark or very low light. You also need to be able to see the threat such as a weapon in the hand. Then can you see your sights on your weapon and the target.
Good luck. Learning the hard way about this isn't the best way to learn
No because I have never owned a weapon and would never own one. So no one needs to come looking for any.
I know I would shoot if needed, but I also know that I will have to live with it for the rest of my life.
My grandfather was a combat veteran and he had to deal with what he experienced until the day he died. I also have a friend who is a cop who was forced to kill an armed man in the line of duty. He’s OK, but he still isn’t the same person he was before the shooting.
If you’re a good man, killing is never something you want to do. You may need to do it to save your life or save your family, but you will have to live with it — even if you were completely in the right.
“If SHTF, Could You and Would You Shoot Someone?”
Yes, I can and I will.
Does that mean “Bullet Hit The Butt”?
No the Marines trained me never to hurt anyone.../s
Hmmm....There is, let’s say, a very close member of my family. She shot an intruder when she was nine years old. She couldn’t get anyone else in the house to wake up enough to understand the issue. She knew where the gun was kept and shot him. (She didn’t kill him, just winged him.) Needless to say, I am very respectful around her.
Shoot them in the legs.
Eventually they'll get curious enough to stop, -turn around- and holler “WTF, dude?!?”
I let insects out of the house after I catch them, if possible.
That said, if someone would elect to pose a mortal threat to my family or me, they will die. End of story.
LISTER has the SIMULANT in his sights.
RIMMER: What are you waiting for? Gloop him.
LISTER: I can’t. He’s not armed.
RIMMER: Lister, this isn’t a Scout meeting. We’re not trying to win the Best Behaved Troop flag. Gloop him.
LISTER: What? In the back?
RIMMER: Of course in the back. It’s only a pity he’s awake.
LISTER: You mean you could happily kill him if he was asleep?
RIMMER: I could happily kill him if he was on the job. Gloop him.
LISTER: It’s immoral.
SIMULANT: Come on, you wouldn’t shoot an unarmed droid. Come out and let’s discuss it.
LISTER sets aside his gun.
LISTER: I’m going to talk to him.
23 Int. Metal gangway.
SIMULANT stands, unarmed, as LISTER drops into shot.
LISTER: You want to talk? Let’s talk.
SIMULANT: You have no weapon?
LISTER: No. You have no weapon?
SIMULANT: No.
They walk towards each other.
SIMULANT: Guess what? (Pulls out hunting knife.) I lied.
Shoot first, ask what if later. just make sure you shoot straight, and its not your foot.
What if I have -really- freaking bright light mounted under my pistol?
Aiming’s not an issue...that’s what the laser’s for.
[the “blinding strobe” feature should be a hoot, too]
;D
LOL
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