Posted on 05/09/2011 7:33:35 PM PDT by Liberty1970
The Italian energy catalyzer that seems to be based on an unknown nuclear reaction is now patented in Italy. The examination continues regarding protection in the rest of the world.
The Italian Patent Office, Ufficio Italiano Brevetti e Marchi, granted a patent for the energy catalyzer on April 6, 2011, valid until April 9, 2028.
The inventor is Andrea Rossi, while his wife Maddalena Pascucci is the patent owner.
The final content of the patent is public but not directly available online (details on how to order the content can be found here).
According to Rossi ten of the original 15 claims remain (see below).
It is not clear if the patent means that the secret details of the energy catalyst can be revealed.
“Now I have to think and, based on the effective patent protection, we can decide what to disclose,” Andrea Rossi said.
The patent office in Italy confirmed that it is a normal patent which was granted after technical examination of the filed application.
(Excerpt) Read more at nyteknik.se ...
His demos have been producing steam (low-pressure), and I think I've seen something about the device being tested at least to 400 degrees F, which is high enough for respectable steam.
If the thing works well at 400 degrees, then you could take a high-pressure pipe, wrap a bunch of e-cats around it, wrap a thermal-insulating sleeve around the whole setup, and let it go (doing it this way rather than immersing the e-cat means the e-cat doesn't have to deal with high pressures, and makes it easier to service). Water comes in one end of the pipe and high-pressure steam comes out the other end which leads to a turbine.
I could see the e-cat being used in ships, locomotives and long-haul tractor-trailers long before it's used in regular cars. For a large vehicle that will run all day, start-up hassles are much less relevant than running costs. That would free up a lot of diesel for automotive use.
bumping, and thanks!
I would add that the military applications of something like this would be enormous. Tank fuel consumption is measured in “gallons per mile”, and the military uses a LOT of fuel to move supplies by truck hundreds of miles.
I understand your skepticism, but this story is different. It's not following the tired and predictable track of past 'miracle' breakthroughs that turned out to be phony.
This inventor just received a patent from the Italian government for his invention. That's not something that happens to scam artists. He's also demonstrated his invention in front of qualified experts, who have been allowed to measure the inputs and outputs on his device.
The only thing he didn't disclose in those tests, is how his device achieves the observed results. That's understandable, given the fact that until now, he didn't have patent protection.
There's one Freeper (who will probably comment on the thread) who tried to invest a couple hundred K with Rossi, but was turned down. Scam artists don't turn down money.
Rossi may not want to do that until he's holding several international patents. May be a while, yet.
But that hasn't stopped him from demonstrating his device to qualified experts, who have all been allowed to do everything but open the device up to see what's inside.
Thus far, none of these observers has been able to debunk his claims of excess heat generation. To the contrary, they've all verified it.
As far as e-cat generating power in your basement, that's at least a decade or two away.
Seems to me that configuring this device for point-of-use application is the smallest of Rossi's hurdles. That's just text book engineering, as far as I can tell.
He could present a design tomorrow, and it could be a great design. It would still be a decade or two before regulators and insurance underwriters approve it for residential use.
It will need to be demonstrated as working safely for years in controlled commercial/industrial environments before it will be approved for home use.
You could be right, but the pace of technological adoption is blindingly fast today. Not every government will move at the the snail's pace of ours.
If this device is fully proven, and can be configured to power small facilities, it will happen quickly, somewhere.
Also, I'm new to this product...just jumped in a few minutes ago, so these might be dumb questions, but...
Have they confirmed that there's not just an impeller in the system that generates hydrogen that gets combusted? Have they checked the isotope ratio of the copper that is found after the run, confirming that it's not just a typical isotopic blend? Could it be that the water is supersaturated with copper ions that get dropped out (electrolysis/pH/etc.)--or that the "catalyst" isn't copper with a nickel plating that gets taken off during the run?
Seems like there are so many scam possibilities here, and there's no reason to believe this as long as he's unwilling to allow any true controlled scientific testing.
Which is precisely his stated "game plan". But there are hints that the good performance of his 50 cc unit has caused him to move "home applications" up in his mental priority list. Here follows GROSS SPECULATION....the reason for that is that the small unit shows little or no tendency to "run away", as the larger units do. It actually REQUIRES the external heater to stay running.
The initial residential applications would be for home heating and air conditioning (cooling using the ammonia absorption cycle. Heating and cooling account for most home energy costs in the US.
"Seems like there are so many scam possibilities here, and there's no reason to believe this as long as he's unwilling to allow any true controlled scientific testing."
Actually, there is a lot of "true controlled scientific testing" going on. He has 97 e-Cats out with various potential users, and has given the U. of Bologna a half-million bucks to THOROUGHLY and scientifically test the device over the next year. But all those folks are probably held under confidentiality until he releases them to publish.
I've read almost everything written thus far, and am a pretty darned good experimental chemist, and the tests thus far run do not spell "scam" to me.
Frankly, I've been a little disappointed with a lot of the "knaysaying", as most of the points raised have actually been addressed and published by the demonstration witnesses, and, at most, demonstrate that those knaysayers have not bothered to actually read the published results.
Like any group of witnesses, some of them saw and checked different things, so you have to read all their statements to get a complete picture of the total facts of the demos, but the info is there.
This is not an accurate statement. Amps x Volts = Watts only where the voltage and current are in phase. And, that assumes both are sinusodial.
I have no idea what sort of controller is used. If it's a simple "bang-bang" controller with a relay that turns the heater on and off, over reasonably intervals, then yes, the resistive load of a heater will allow accurate power measurements to be made with a clamp on ammeter and voltmeter, by multiplying the two measurements.
However, if the controller does things to the waveform, such as a triac control does, then things get considerably more complicated in computing input power. I would use a digital oscilloscope to measure the voltage and current (via a Hall effect clamp-on current probe) and let the DSO compute power by computing E * I for each instantaneous digital sample and then computing the cycle power from those instantaneous measurements.
Still not saying whether this is a scam or legit. My personal hope is that it's real and can be commercialized. But, as Carl Sagan often said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" and removing any possibility for scamming is necessary.
Jack
I can understand how that affects the power OUT of the controller, but fail to see how it affects the power going IN to the control box. There's only so many watts available at the "faucet", it doesn't matter how much bigger the pipe is downstream. And I would think that the phase of voltage/current would be set at the generating plant supplying the lab.
And if you look at the various videos, they are monitoring "something" on an oscilloscope screen, which I assume is the power pulses "out" of (one of) the controllers (and the output is definitely a "pulse"(skewed gaussian shape, sharp rise, slower fall-off)), looks to be about half a second or so between traces/pulses.
I believe the main reason he uses the small modules in series is that the reaction is easier to control and he wants to maximize safety. I read that on startup with the larger modules there is an instant where there are bursts of radiation. Rossi wants to be able to assure regulators that these devices are absolutely safe.
I believe the main reason he uses the small modules in series is that the reaction is easier to control and he wants to maximize safety. I read that on startup with the larger modules there is an instant where there are bursts of radiation. Rossi wants to be able to assure regulators that these devices are absolutely safe.
“Do you have any good ideas how the demonstrations to date could be faked (and how any similar demonstrations could then be exposed as frauds?)”
Any demonstration on home terf can be faked.
I would be more comfortable if he were sending units to independent labs where they were setting up and evaluating the equipement. Having experts observe the unit does not rule out manipulation, after all, magicians fool the eye all the time.
But several of the demonstrations were "not" on "home turf" (specifically, at the U of Bologna rather than at Rossi's factory/R&D lab.
I would be more comfortable if he were sending units to independent labs where they were setting up and evaluating the equipement."
Again, pure speculation on my part, but I think that once the 1MW unit is cranked up that Rossi will tell the "other" 97 unit holders/evaluators that they can release their data. And don't forget the year-long study that is to be done (is being done??) at the U. of B.
FR mail incoming.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.