How about it? Anybody get Raptured?

various | 3/22/2011 | me

[bkepley]

Looks like everyone's here. Wife, cat, dog, me.

[j_tull]

I beg you to add John 5:24 to your “key concepts”: 24”Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

[j_tull]

Then, my friend, it appears you are trolling a thread for sport. Whether you beleive a single thought expressed here is moot. Best of luck with your beliefs, such as they may be.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

No, I got the point.

The other point is that the prophetic Scriptures, along with all the rest of the Bible, are equally important. What is in the Bible was all put there by God, and He put it there for a reason.

The events surrounding the return of Jesus Christ are not something to take lightly. Those left behind after Jesus takes His Bride will experience horrific judgments, and billions on this planet will die as a result of those judgments. And the vast majority of those billions will spend an eternity in hell, separated from God for all eternity; a place described by God as one of "weeping and gnashing of teeth", a place of "outer darkness", a place of "torments", and a place of "everlasting destruction".

The prophetic Scriptures have the power to save human beings from a fate in this place.

It certainly isn't "fluff".

[GiovannaNicoletta]

And the only proof you have of any of these assertions is belief....that’s all.

Well, not exactly. I have hundreds of Biblical prophecies already fulfilled to tell me that the Scriptures were written by the living God and are absolutely inerrant and true.

Just a few of those fulfilled prophecies:

• Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)*

• In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

• In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slave—thirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," used—just as predicted—for the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1011.)

• Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013.)

• The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1015.)

• Mighty Babylon, 196 miles square, was enclosed not only by a moat, but also by a double wall 330 feet high, each part 90 feet thick. It was said by unanimous popular opinion to be indestructible, yet two Bible prophets declared its doom. These prophets further claimed that the ruins would be avoided by travelers, that the city would never again be inhabited, and that its stones would not even be moved for use as building material (Isaiah 13:17-22 and Jeremiah 51:26, 43). Their description is, in fact, the well-documented history of the famous citadel.

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109.)

• The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted.

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1018.)

• The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God's spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24).

  This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillment—in our lifetime.

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 120.)

• Jeremiah predicted that despite its fertility and despite the accessibility of its water supply, the land of Edom (today a part of Jordan) would become a barren, uninhabited wasteland (Jeremiah 49:15-20; Ezekiel 25:12-14). His description accurately tells the history of that now bleak region.

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

• Joshua prophesied that Jericho would be rebuilt by one man. He also said that the man's eldest son would die when the reconstruction began and that his youngest son would die when the work reached completion (Joshua 6:26). About five centuries later this prophecy found its fulfillment in the life and family of a man named Hiel (1 Kings 16:33-34).

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 107).

• The day of Elijah's supernatural departure from Earth was predicted unanimously—and accurately, according to the eye-witness account—by a group of fifty prophets (2 Kings 2:3-11).

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109).

• Jahaziel prophesied that King Jehoshaphat and a tiny band of men would defeat an enormous, well-equipped, well-trained army without even having to fight. Just as predicted, the King and his troops stood looking on as their foes were supernaturally destroyed to the last man (2 Chronicles 20).

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 108).

• One prophet of God (unnamed, but probably Shemiah) said that a future king of Judah, named Josiah, would take the bones of all the occultic priests (priests of the "high places") of Israel's King Jeroboam and burn them on Jeroboam's altar (1 Kings 13:2 and 2 Kings 23:15-18). This event occurred approximately 300 years after it was foretold.

  (Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013).

Since these thirteen prophecies cover mostly separate and independent events, the probability of chance occurrence for all thirteen is about 1 in 10138 (138 equals the sum of all the exponents of 10 in the probability estimates above). For the sake of putting the figure into perspective, this probability can be compared to the statistical chance that the second law of thermodynamics will be reversed in a given situation (for example, that a gasoline engine will refrigerate itself during its combustion cycle or that heat will flow from a cold body to a hot body)—that chance = 1 in 1080. Stating it simply, based on these thirteen prophecies alone, the Bible record may be said to be vastly more reliable than the second law of thermodynamics. Each reader should feel free to make his own reasonable estimates of probability for the chance fulfillment of the prophecies cited here. In any case, the probabilities deduced still will be absurdly remote.

Given that the Bible proves so reliable a document, there is every reason to expect that the remaining 500 prophecies, those slated for the "time of the end," also will be fulfilled to the last letter. Who can afford to ignore these coming events, much less miss out on the immeasurable blessings offered to anyone and everyone who submits to the control of the Bible's author, Jesus Christ? Would a reasonable person take lightly God's warning of judgment for those who reject what they know to be true about Jesus Christ and the Bible, or who reject Jesus' claim on their lives?

Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible

So, based on the fact that prophecies given hundreds and sometimes thousands of years before they occurred actually came to pass, I can believe all of the Scripture, including the part where God calls Himself a man, and came to earth as a man for the purpose of giving His life to redeem the world.

And, by the way, there is no other "holy book" in the world that contains the fulfilled prophecies that the Bible contains, because they can't. The living God who spoke the worlds and universes into existence didn't write the "holy books" of the various false religions around the world.

So I guess we can now dispense with the myth and fairy tale that the Bible and Christianity is a myth and fairy tale. The evidence for the reality of Jesus Christ and the inerrancy of the Bible is too overwhelming.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

If you can't provide the Scripture to support your belief, then your belief becomes an opinion, nothing more.

As long as you can't validate your belief with Scripture, you are in no position to question the beliefs of others, or criticize the beliefs of others, or tell others that their beliefs are in error.

You have repeatedly, over the years, made the claim that the pre-Trib Rapture cannot be supported by Scripture, yet when asked to provide Scripture to justify that claim and support your own belief, you have never been able to produce.

My previous post to you gave more than enough proof that the Bible supports the pre-Trib position. Until you can give plain, clear Scripture to support your denial of the Scripture produced to support the pre-Trib belief, you really have nothing to say and nothing to contribute.

And after years of the same one-note samba, you begin to look foolish. It might be wise just to leave it alone.

[Egon]

I beg you to add John 5:24 to your “key concepts”: 24”Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Um. That's the same concept. That's kinda my point.

[Egon]

I certainly wasn’t calling every part of the Bible that wasn’t John 3:16 “fluff”, although I can certainly see why you could take it that way.

What I was saying is that the key concept is: we are saved through the grace of Jesus, if we accept that gift.

Every other point is secondary.

I disagree that prophetic scriptures have the power to save. Only a personal relationship with Jesus does. Without that personal relationship, one will not understand nor believe the prophetic scriptures.

For believers to get into dogmatic shoving matches over concepts that are secondary to salvation, and become myopically focused on minutiae is what I’m calling “fluff”.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

There have been many, many people who have come to Christ for salvation after being told of the prophetic Scriptures. This is why Satan tries so hard to discredit those portions of the Bible, and uses people who scoff at prophecy and deny that these things will happen.

While it is possible to get bogged down in some finer details, as we see the prophetic Scriptures happening in our time, it is vitally important to get the warning out to those who don't know Christ that the time given for accepting Jesus as Savior is rapidly running short. One day the Rapture will occur, and the only means of escape people have from the horrors of the Tribulation will be gone.

Christians are commanded by Jesus to recognize the signs for His return as they are happening, to know the season for what it is, and to watch for His return.

We are obligated to warn the world of what is coming and to not fall in Satan's trap of ridiculing, denying, minimizing, and ignoring what is going on around us. Even if, during the course of telling others, we may sometimes fall into "minutiae".

[GiovannaNicoletta]

I meant to add that I'm not saying that you are guilty of any of what many on this thread are doing.

Including some who call themselves Christians.

[Logic n' Reason]

Best of luck with your beliefs, such as they may be.

And you with yours....such as THEY may be.

As an aside...I read lots of threads so that I may learn something...and there is always lots to learn...both good and bad.

And...have you bothered yourself to read some of the other "unbeliever" posts in this thread? If so, have you made your comments to all of them? Of have you just singled me out as the target of your views?

[Blood of Tyrants]

Jesus said, “I go to prepare a place for you”. The church is also referred to as His bride. In ancient Hebrew culture, when a woman and man became betrothed, the man would then go an build a place for his wife. If he was the son of a rich man, it might be a new house. If it was the son of a poor man, it might be just an additional room on his father’s house. Anyway, the father was the one who determined when the place was done and only THEN could he claim his bride.

“Why all the prognosticating?”

I don’t know but I will b sure to ask when I get there,

“And why, if people take the snatching from the fields stuff literally, do they not give all their money and goods to the poor as Jesus commands?”

You are referring to the story of the rich young ruler who Jesus told to give away all his possessions and follow Him. Jesus had a way of finding a person’s stumbling block and knew that the rich young man’s money was his. I am certain that if you or I would have asked, he would have given us similarly difficult tasks.

But Jesus doesn’t call on all to give all their money to the poor. He had many wealthy friends He loved, Lazarus for one, and they weren’t asked to give up their wealth. Jesus told us to spread His word to all peoples and nations. How could this be done if everyone who followed him were a poor as dirt?

[reaganator]

I love the info!

Freepers are very knowledgable on anything and everything!

Learned much, but won’t be dressing in white robes and waiting on a barn roof as the Millerites did in 1843.

Was the language of the Gospel writers Armenian?

When was it translated to Latin?

[AndyTheBear]

(I don’t have access to the Latin Vulgate so would like to know)

But you DO have access to the Latin Vulgate if you go to biblegateway.com and switch the version to it. Then search on raptu (I just did this to check out his claim).

[AndyTheBear]

I used google translate on the latin

[AndyTheBear]

Why is god a “he”??

When molecules are represented to a 3rd grade class, the teacher might use colored Styrofoam balls as the atoms and connect them by tooth picks. Does this mean that atoms are made of Styrofoam held together by toothpicks? Does this mean that atomic theories can be challenged on the basis that its silly to think atoms are made of Styrofoam?

How would such a silly objection be different from your silly objections?

[Logic n' Reason]

It's an old method called "anthropomorphization"...making god "human" as a way of trying to put some sort of definition on a godhead.

Pretty much the same effect as that third grade teacher is trying to achieve.

But....if one must provide humanization to the godhead...why NOT "she"?

[AndyTheBear]

It's an old method called "anthropomorphization"...making god "human" as a way of trying to put some sort of definition on a godhead.

Define? The third grade teacher is trying to give the students a way to visualize the atom. She is not trying to define it as being Styrofoam. And while some third graders might have the mistaken idea that atoms are little solid balls, it is necessary to give them some way to conceptualize of them, as what they actually are is not completely understood nor intuitively easy to visualize.

Kind of like the God described in the bible. Like sub atomic physics, spiritual realities are harder to visualize, so quite reasonably analogies are used.

The bible calls God our Father as an illustration of the relationship that God has to man, and the relationship a father has with a child. This is used for illustration, and is certainly not intended to imply God fathers children in the same way that a person does. Other illustrations in the bible have God as a groom and the church as his bride. This does not mean that Christian men consider themselves women.

But....if one must provide humanization to the godhead...why NOT "she"?

The book of Genesis says very plainly that both men and women were both created in the image of God. The Christian bible makes a distinction between Jesus who was begotten of God and the rest of us who were created in His image. Also it is said plainly in the bible that God is spirit. Thus the idea that the maleness of God is for any other purpose than an illustration of relationship is just silly.

Since in most cultures the father/husband has the most authority in a family, the analogy fits best for the male. So what a surprise that being a "father" and being a "husband" are used, and not being a "mother" or being a "wife".

[Logic n' Reason]

When belief in fables takes the place of reasoned thought and fact, discussion ends.

Try to have a nice life; I wish you well.

[Vermont Lt]

I want to watch you try to circumcise the cat. That would be fun.