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BBC:Roman Rise, Fall 'Recorded in Trees' (Climate Change Led to Fall of Empire) BARF-A-GANZA!
BBC News ^ | January 14, 2010 | Mark Kinver

Posted on 01/16/2011 9:19:55 AM PST by lbryce

An extensive study of tree growth rings says there could be a link between the rise and fall of past civilisations and sudden shifts in Europe's climate.

A team of researchers based their findings on data from 9,000 wooden artifacts from the past 2,500 years.

They found that periods of warm, wet summers coincided with prosperity, while political turmoil occurred during times of climate instability.

The findings have been published online by the journal Science.

"Looking back on 2,500 years, there are examples where climate change impacted human history," co-author Ulf Buntgen, a paleoclimatologist at the Swiss Federal Research Institute for Forest, Snow and Landscape, told the Science web Ring record

The team capitalised on a system used to date material unearthed during excavations.

"Archaeologists have developed oak ring width chronologies from Central Europe that cover nearly the entire Holocene and have used them for the purpose of dating artefacts, historical buildings, antique artwork and furniture," they wrote.

"Chronologies of living and relict oaks may reflect distinct patterns of summer precipitation and drought."

The team looked at how weather over the past couple of centuries affected living trees' growth rings.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: blackdeath; blackplague; bubonicplague; climate; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; godsgravesglyphs; hoax; paleoclimatology; romanempire; yersiniapestis
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis

Thats right, it was the Krakatoa eruption of 535 AD that caused it. You can clearly see it in these several decades of tree rings right here.


41 posted on 01/16/2011 10:05:46 AM PST by Cisco Nix (Because the left is ugly and the right is beautiful.)
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To: dirtboy
If I remember correctly, the early Medieval period was a time of relative prosperity because the temperatures in Europe was warm enough to sustain a long agricultural growing season. But from 1300 on, Europe fell into a period of colder climates, which shortened food growing seasons and started to result in occasional famines.

A major concern right now is that the Sun's solar activity has been not as active as anticipated, and that could trigger off another Maunder Minimum type cooling of the Earth, which could result in a more sustained Ice Age that could result in much of the higher latitudes in the Northern Hemisphere being under ice, which could really affect food production.

42 posted on 01/16/2011 10:07:40 AM PST by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: lbryce

They have to justify their grants and Government funding..even if they have to come up with BS.


43 posted on 01/16/2011 10:12:20 AM PST by Marty62 (Marty 60)
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To: lbryce

lol
“9,000 wooden artifacts” with no dates. That wood might have been cut 1000 miles away from where it was found. Trade DID happen in history.

These kooks will do anything to try to prove global warming is a threat.

It’s a natural phenomenon along with global cooling.


44 posted on 01/16/2011 10:17:33 AM PST by Danae (Anailnathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis

ROTFLMAO

Thats brilliant!


45 posted on 01/16/2011 10:17:59 AM PST by Danae (Anailnathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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To: lbryce

So, there’s hope for everybody who’s against political correctness?


46 posted on 01/16/2011 10:20:24 AM PST by johnthebaptistmoore (If leftist legislation that's already in place really can't be ended by non-leftists, then what?)
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To: lbryce
These guys never seem to give up...


47 posted on 01/16/2011 10:26:09 AM PST by lbryce (Obama Notwithstanding, America's Best Days Are Yet To Be .)
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To: lbryce
Must have been all of those SUV Chariots...


48 posted on 01/16/2011 10:27:18 AM PST by darkwing104 (Lets get dangerous)
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To: lbryce

Um.... I agree that the “global warming - the end of the world - we’re all gonna die” people are beneath contempt.

However, looking the growth of tree rings as a way to determine climate is reliable. You can determine what happened in the past by looking at the way the tree rings are laid down.

It’s also true that ancient people, living locally, could be heavily impacted by a bad spell of weather. I get my grapes from Chile and my apples from Washington state; the Romans were stuck with whatever was growing in their corner of the world. Of course they’d be hard hit by a change in the climate.

What makes this a barfer for me is the statement that people did better during spells of warm, wet weather - gee, which is exactly what the global warming people are predicting for our future. When they say they want carbon dioxide returned to preindustrial levels, they are saying they want colder, drier climate - which hurts people and civilizations.

But there’s a difference between trying to predict the future and seeing the evidence of the past. I can go outside my door, cut down a big spruce (by Alaska standards), look at the rings myself, and see clearly dry years and wet years, cold years and warm years. No doubt those Romans were hard hit by crappy weather. We’re in much better shape than they were, assuming the nuts on the left don’t get their way.


49 posted on 01/16/2011 10:28:01 AM PST by redpoll
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To: Allegra
Hussein;is that you?
50 posted on 01/16/2011 10:35:23 AM PST by lbryce (Obama Notwithstanding, America's Best Days Are Yet To Be .)
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To: lbryce

Its interesting. I agree that scientists use historical climate changes to try to force modern politicians to spend money on their causes. However, there is real value in looking at non-man-made causes for the fall or empires. Global climate change probably did play a roll in Western civilization’s rises and falls. So did disease. The collapse of the Eastern Empire and the surge of the Persians and Arabs into Egypt and the Holy Land can be linked in part to a devistating plague that wiped out from a quarter to perhaps half of the Byzantine population. Its fascinating research that, if done right, can really help us understand history.


51 posted on 01/16/2011 10:35:49 AM PST by Opinionated Blowhard
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To: lbryce
Hussein;is that you?

Huh?

That's ManBearPig. You have to be a South Park fan to get it. ;-)

It has to do with Algore.

52 posted on 01/16/2011 10:40:49 AM PST by Allegra (You're a towel.)
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To: Opinionated Blowhard

Yes, all true but as conjecture, as historical possibility, probability but not postulation.


53 posted on 01/16/2011 10:44:06 AM PST by lbryce (Obama Notwithstanding, America's Best Days Are Yet To Be .)
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To: Allegra

LOL. I am so, so embarrassed, to have demonstrated such appalling ignorance. :-)


54 posted on 01/16/2011 10:48:40 AM PST by lbryce (Obama Notwithstanding, America's Best Days Are Yet To Be .)
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To: lbryce

And what was the technological level of the Roman world, and the world as whole, at that time?

What were their capabilities to defend against, adjust to and recover from “climate change” and what our ours?

In today’s world if one nation that grows corn, or rice or wheat is having a drought, the world market price for that commodity goes up and farmers in every nation that grows that crop make a little more for it and the world finance and transportation systems, and government aid systems, work to get that commodity delivered.

Similar differences - between the era of the Roman empire and today - are true with regard to many other “ill” affects from “climate change”.

True enough, those differences are greatest between the era of the Roman Empire and the most developed nations of today. And, true enough, some nations are less advanced and less capable of responding to ill affects of climate change, on their own.

But, collectively and cooperatively, the world as whole is capable of defending against, adjusting to and recovering from any “climate change” that may have helped advance the demise of the Roman Empire.

Anyone’s attempt to use the era of the Roman Empire and climate change as a comparison of concern with the world today is ignoring, totally, the context of the capabilities of human societies today. It’s “junk science”.


55 posted on 01/16/2011 11:17:19 AM PST by Wuli
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To: lbryce

I’m sure the arrival of the Huns and subsquent invasions by the Goths, Vandals, Lombards, etc, had nothing to do with it. Perhaps they were merely looking for a friendly beach to cool off at.


56 posted on 01/16/2011 11:26:31 AM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Happy Rain

You are very close to being correct!.....


57 posted on 01/16/2011 3:08:49 PM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing something right.)
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To: lbryce

A period of cooling did help contribute to the downfall of the Roman Empire.


58 posted on 01/16/2011 3:48:10 PM PST by Thunder90 (Fighting for truth and the American way... http://citizensfortruthandtheamericanway.blogspot.com/)
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To: nomad
But according to their vaunted "hockey stick chart" the climate hasn`t changed till now, you can`t have it both ways and say with any credibility you`re a scientist.

According to many scientists, the time of the Romans was much warmer than it is now, at least in that part of the world.

59 posted on 01/16/2011 3:49:11 PM PST by Thunder90 (Fighting for truth and the American way... http://citizensfortruthandtheamericanway.blogspot.com/)
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To: blam; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; ...

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Thanks blam.
..."Looking back on 2,500 years, there are examples where climate change impacted human history," co-author Ulf Buntgen...
Seems as if we've been saying this here on FR for a while already, glad the AGW agenda is no longer ascendant.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
 

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· Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·


60 posted on 01/17/2011 6:38:46 AM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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