Posted on 01/07/2011 8:24:32 PM PST by Allthatucantleavebehind
While the Pentagon downplays China’s rollout this week of what appears to be a jet fighter designed using sophisticated stealth technology, military experts are warning that the aircraft – reportedly capable of besting America’s F-22 in speed and maneuverability – could pose the greatest threat yet to U.S. air superiority.
Decorated Navy fighter pilot Matthew “Whiz” Buckley, a Top Gun graduate of the Navy Fighter Weapons School who flew 44 combat missions over Iraq, says, “It’s probably leaps and bounds above where we are, and that’s terrifying.”
“As a former Navy fighter pilot, going up against something that’s stealthy, highly maneuverable and with electronic systems more capable than mine -- that’ll keep me up at night,” said Buckley, now chief strategy officer at Fox3 Options LLC.
“It was built to reduce radar signatures. You can tell it has some serious stealth technology,” he said. “My F-18 looks like an 18-wheeler on radar. That thing might not even show up.”
“When you try to make a jack of all trades, you have tradeoffs,” Buckley said. “It’s obvious that the Chinese are throwing money and technology to making something the best, and here we’re worried that one is going to bankrupt the country.”
“We used be No. 1 at having the leading technology. ... Now, we’re kind of in catch-up mode, where we’ve never really been before.”
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I question the veracity of that story. As it is now the chins haven’t built anything of their own design that has been completely successful. They have one fighter the J-10 that may or may not even equal the most current F-16. They have never fielded a stealth fighter nor have the russians much less having even been able to develop successful tactics for it. From the pictures, stability looks like it might be a problem for it. All moveable tails ventral fins plus canards and large turkey feathers hanging out at the exhaust nozzles does not strike me as having a real low RCS.
Since when did they become the experts in aviation tech?
If their aeronautical engineers are as skilled as the electrical engineers I work with I don't doubt they have built this thing. And like the men I work with they are probably almost all American educated.
I believe China can indeed surpass Made in USA, they will make more of these, they will make them cheaper, and to them they are basically disposable, use once and thats it.
The Russians had the edge with the Foxbat but the engines had to be basically replaced after every single high speed sortie.
This aircraft arguably may not have a superior avionics package, it most probably doesn’t have a superior weapons package either, but the Chinese won’t be hampered by cutbacks, cost over runs or developmental problems.
I also don’t think they will try to export many either. What would be a counter to this? Drones and some pretty darn good ones.
Cant compare DVD players and toasters to hi tech fighter planes. you think they have slave labor building the planes.
That being said, until it proves itself, its all talk.
There is A LOT more to radar stealth than just shape and the shape of this bird really ain't that stealthy. I see lots of areas that will throw a significant RCS. Pilots should stick to what they know and leave the engineerin' to Engineers.....
One of the obvious kinks that jumps out at me is low speed pitch control. See the canards? Clear evidence they haven't figured out how to control pitch at MCS with conventional control surfaces and thrust vectoring.....
Decorated Navy fighter pilot Matthew "Whiz" Buckley, a Top Gun graduate of the Navy Fighter Weapons School who flew 44 combat missions over Iraq... said ... "It's obvious that the Chinese are throwing money and technology to making something the best, and here we're worried that one is going to bankrupt the country."
Actually, no. I invite you to read MiG Pilot, the account of Viktor Belenko's defection with his Foxbat. It was barely on par with the F-4. It couldn't really maneuver at all. It's range was poor due to it's weight and engine type. Some excerpts from the book when Belenko was being questioned about the Foxbat's performance:
What is the maximum speed of the MiG-25?
You cannot safely exceed Mach 2.8, but actually we were forbidden to exceed Mach 2.5. You see, at high speeds the engines have a very strong tendency to accelerate out of control, and if they go above Mach 2.8, they will overheat and burn up.
But we have tracked the MiG-25 at Mach 3.2.
Yes, and every time it has flown that fast the engines have been completely ruined and had to be replaced and the pilot was lucky to land in one piece. (That fitted with intelligence the Americans had. They knew that the MiG-25 clocked over Israel at Mach 3.2 in 1973 had landed back in Egypt with its engines totally wrecked. They did not understand that the wreckage was inevitable rather than a freakish occurrence.)
What is your combat radius?
At best, 300 kilometers [186 miles].
You're joking!
I am not. If you use afterburners and maneuver for intercept, you can stay up between twenty-two and twenty-seven minutes at the most. Make one pass, and that's it.
We thought the range was 2,000 kilometers [1,240 miles].
Belenko laughed. That's ridiculous. Theoretically, if you don't use afterburners, don't maneuver, and stay at the best altitude, you can fly 1,200 kilometers [744 miles] in a straight line. But in practice, when we were ferrying the plane from base to base, we never tried to fly more than 900 kilometers [558 miles] without refueling.
Maneuvering. Tell us about maneuvering. How many Gs can you take in a turn?
If the tanks are full, there is so much weight in the wings that they will rip off if you try more than 2.2 Gs. Even if you're almost out of fuel, anything above 5 Gs is dangerous.
The Americans were stunned. Why, you can't turn inside even an F-4!
You can't turn inside anything. It's not designed to dogfight.
I do agree, however, the future of air combat is the UCAV.
China is fully plugged into the civilian world. Some of America's most sophisticated avionics companies, like Rockwell Collins, will be partnering with China to develop avionics for China's commercial aircraft industry. China is further along than the Russians on the civilian side because of greater market access and interaction with the West and Japan.
On the military side, China was cut off from the West in 1989 and have been struggling to catch up. But they did have the help from the Russians. And with Russian help, China moved further along had they not had it, but still not where the West is or even where Russia is today.
China's civilian resources will be needed to close the gap between what China has today in military (i.e., Soviet-era capabilities, but not Russia's latest) and the West. In another decade and a half, China's civilian economy will likely be very close to Western technology. As China progresses in the civilian world, she will be able to further allocate resources and talent to the military side.
I doubt China's overall military capabilities will be able to match the US by 2015, however, I do believe they will no longer need the Russians by 2020 (including no longer needing Russian jet engines) as she will R&D her way past the Russians in military.
So, while China produced the outer frame of the J-20 and rolled it out, we still don't know what is on the inside. There is still a host of tests and re-designs (as well as an all out new engine) that will need to be done in order for the airplane to be fully functional and combat ready. And then when that happens, more time will be needed to field it in significant numbers.
To paraphrase, there is still a large gap between China's military industry and the West (especially the US), but the development of her civilian industry will provide the resources talent to close the gap.
China's biggest asset is patience.
Hi Panda, I wondered where you had been on this one.
Yep, except that they DON'T HAVE TIME.
"One child" is going to screw their demographics beyond the point of repair.
And a billion+ mouths to feed is a *liability*, not a strength.
Did someone mention clean drinking water?
Cheers!
Another news:
State-owned Chinese TV news claimed China has conducted the flight test of their own unmanned space-air craft rivial X-37B successfully, roughly at the same time when USA tested theirs.
I expect China to match everything USA military have by no later than 2020.
Hey, long time no hear. I hope you got your Christmas shopping done. Did you avoid buying anything "made in China"? ;)
"One child" is going to screw their demographics beyond the point of repair.
Well, "screw...beyond..repair" is a bit strong I believe. But it is affecting them in a negative way. But keep in mind, the one-child policy isn't an across the board requirement. People, under certain circumstances, can have two. And in many cases, there maybe even children that the census takers will miss because people have children out of the public scrutiny. And there is a call to end the one child policy. While the government is currently standing firm, I believe it will be a thing of the past someday.
And a billion+ mouths to feed is a *liability*, not a strength.
Why is that a liability? The West, as a whole have a billion mouths to feed and they (you people;) are making it work. And China has 1.4 billion today and feed them better than say in the 1930's when China had 480 million or 0.48 billion. In fact, obsesity is becoming a problem in China. The Chinese blame it on McDonald's of course, just like Americans. But it has more to do with the overall abundance and easy access the average person has to food. And an ever increasing sedenary life style.
Did someone mention clean drinking water?
Clean drinking water, or lack of it, is a problem in China. But there's a difference between having a problem and not addressing it and having a problem and addressing. Military increases tend to get alot of attention on the FR. But China is doing so much more. And one area is the building of water treatment plants. In fact, China currently tops the list of the world's largest infrastructure projects and one is a water diversion project to divert water from the Yangtze River up to and around Beijing and the surrounding Northern provinces.
Yep, except that they DON'T HAVE TIME.
People here have been predicting that China is like a house of cards and will implode and so far it isn't. Or at least disintegrate and fragment itself like the former USSR. But in reality China, is more united than ever. Sure, there are internal problems and internal strife, what country doesn't have them.
As a sane adult (I'm assuming you are ;) you should know, that a person, as well as a country isn't limited by the circumstances, but what they do with those circumstances. Isn't that why, back in the early 1990's, Germany exported food to the recently fallen former USSR? Ironic isn't, it that a country with such a small land mass would be exporting food to a country with so much land?
In the end, I believe China will be able to deal with the global circumstances that will challenge them. And that includes how to work with other nations, through tough negotiations, on building and maintaing a military COMMENSURATE with its size and economic strength. Not more, not less. China isn't insisting more, but the Americans are insisting less. And really that is where the problem lies, as China becomes an economic super power, many, mostly the US, want China to remain a 3rd world military.
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