IATZ WTF?
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Posted on 06/04/2010 2:30:34 PM PDT by nickcarraway
In the new movie "Splice," a human-animal hybrid terrorizes people. In real life, scientists argue mixing human and animal cells could save lives.
Dren, the half-human, half-animal hybrid set to terrorize Adrien Brody and Sarah Polley in the new movie "Splice," is pure science fiction, but politicians across the country aren't taking any chances.
In the last month Ohio and Arizona have both passed laws forbidding research of animal human hybrids.
Proponents of the laws fear Dren-like creations and object morally to the combining human and animal cells. But scientists say the research could lead to cure for AIDS, immunize people against cancer, or grow replacement organs.
The potential for medical cures or advances is huge, said Esmail Zanjani, a scientist at the University of Nevada Reno who has created sheep that produce livers that are up to 20 percent human.
"But just because we can do something doesn't mean we should," said Zanjani. "We need to have a full discussion with the public," about this kind of research.
In a recent interview, "Splice" director Vincenzo Natali said that his inspiration for "Splice" was the earmouse, a 1995 experiment where scientists grew a large, human-shaped ear from cow cells grown on the back of a hairless mouse.
Despite the fact that no human cells were used in the ear mouse (the scientists placed cow cells on a polymer shaped like the human ear), the research sparked controversy and raised hopes that replacement organs would soon be available.
Since then research into animal human hybrids, or chimeras (after the lion, goat, and snake creature from Greek mythology) has exploded. Over the last 15 years scientists have created sheep with human livers and pancreas cells, mice with human immune systems, and many other combinations of human and animal cells.
None of the modern chimeras look like something out of Dr. Moreau's menagerie. They look like normal animals. The difference is on the inside.
The blood flowing through their veins could be human. The liver or kidneys could contain discrete human liver or kidney cells. These are not transgenic animals, said Zanjani. They are discrete cells, either animal or human. The DNA is not mixed.
If a human had, say, hepatitis, and their liver was dying, scientists could extract liver cells from that person, insert them into a developing sheep, and then harvest a human liver, made from a person's own cells (to reduce the chance of organ rejection), and replace the old liver.
Infected cells can't fight off an infection, whether it is HIV or some other disease. But if uninfected human stem cells were placed in an animal's body, scientists could train those cells to recognize and fight off the infection.
Once they are ready, the cells would be harvested from the animal and introduced back into the original human's body. There the retrained immune cells would fight off the infection.
The same technique could work for cancer, said Jeffery Platt, a scientist at the University of Michigan exploring this very scenario.
Millions of lives could be saved using human-animal hybrids, say scientists, but some people have strong moral objections to mixing human and animal cells. Earlier this week the Ohio Senate passed Senate Bill 243, which prohibits "the creation, transportation, or receipt of a human-animal hybrid, the transfer of a nonhuman embryo into a human womb, and the transfer of a human embryo into a nonhuman womb."
Anyone who violates the new law could spend five years in prison and face up to a quarter million dollars in fines. Other states, including Louisiana, Oklahoma, and Arizona have also banned research into chimeras.
National governments have also stepped in. The United Kingdom approved chimera research in 2008, when it granted a Newcastle University stem cell scientist Lyle Armstrong a permit to use cow eggs filled with human DNA to develop therapies for Parkinson's disease and stroke victims. (All cow DNA would be removed before the human DNA would be inserted.)
Canada bans all chimera research, but the Human-Animal Hybrid Prohibition Act of 2009 failed to pass the U.S. Congress.
Fears about new technology are nothing new, said Platt; the advent of railroads sparked controversy about how fast the human body was meant to travel. Nor are they unnatural; people fear what they don't know. But the potential of chimera research to save millions of lives should also be added to the equation.
"Where it becomes a problem is if government responses with undue constraints that are not justified," said Platt.
Trolls usually don’t.
Some manage to hang around for years, though.
No, because it contaminates animal's and human's DNA. It gets back to what another FReepre pointed out as the reason God sent the Flood.
God made species to reproduce after their own kind. Creating chimeras is treading on dangerous ground, ground we are not wise enough to manage.
I believe that mankind has developed technology that has outpaced his ability to control it and use it wisely, and that is going to lead to trouble.
Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean that we should.
That’s for sure.
Citizen, where are you going with this?
Surely you wouldn't expect the Word to address such a spiritually contrary endeavor that had yet to show its humanist head at the time?
Jeremiah 17:The Word makes it plain that our health / healing is to come from the sources that the Lord gave us, and that they are sufficient. If we expect to avoid the consequences of doing otherwise through man's clever twisting of life, we are not in any way trusting in the Lord; we are indeed making flesh our power, rather than the Lord.
"[5] Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
[6] For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
[7] Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
Incredible quotes, powerful reply.
gaijin: “Come on —spout me some more hackneyed platitudes, since it spares you the pain of THINKING just a tad.”
I wish this thread hadn’t devolved into this. You’ve made a lot of good points, gaijin, but there’s no reason to resort to a personal attack on metmom. You’re insulting her ability to think rather than the specific points she makes.
metmom is doing the same thing when she attacks posters as being noobs or trolls. That’s another attack on the person, not the statements made.
AND, tweeb did the same thing by implying metmom is a Nazi, at least that’s how it came across to me. tweeb, metmom was talking about the purity of the human genome versus animal, NOT racial purity.
I’m not perfect in this regard either, but we should try to remain both civil and on topic. Genetic engineering, in my opinion, is interesting and important. Are there some things that simply shouldn’t be done, like animal-human hybrids? Where does one morally draw the line?
editor-surveyor: “Pigs at least are smart enough not to eat unnaturally modified corn; humans seem to lack that instinctive intelligence.”
Really? Pigs won’t eat genetically modified corn? I thought pigs would eat nearly anything. Do you have links? I found some that claimed pigs suffered damage from eating genetically modified corn, but didn’t see anything about them not eating it in the first place.
Link to original study:
http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.pdf
Link from Monsanto refuting the French claim:
IATZ WTF?
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I think my point is clear. Christians can’t just go around saying something is evil without founding that belief in scripture.
Why did the Lord flood the earth in Genesis 6? The answer is right there in scripture:
Genesis 6:5 “5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
Genesis 6:13 “13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
God wanted to destroy man because the “thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” and “the earth is filled with violence through them.” At least that’s what the scripture says. I could be interpreting it wrong.
There’s also this, but this isn’t given as the reason why He decided to destroy man:
Genesis 6:4 “4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
What does scripture have to say about nuclear weapons? How about Islamic Jihad? What about National Socialism (Nazis)?
I think that I have a pretty good eye for evil, while I appreciate help from the Scriptures, I think that I can do pretty good on my own.
editor-surveyor: “The Word makes it plain that our health / healing is to come from the sources that the Lord gave us, and that they are sufficient.”
What exactly are these sources the Lord gave us?
My opinion? All healing comes from the Lord because man can do nothing without the gifts the Lord has provided, including our minds and the material things around us. The fact that all healing comes from (has its source in) the Lord does not mean we let people suffer and die while we wait on the Lord to miraculously heal them. It means we use the resources provided while thankfully acknowledging their source and asking the Lord to bless the healer’s work, which is done in love for our fellow man.
tweeb has been banned, but I understood his point even though it was very poorly made. I believe he referred to Pol Pot because the Khmer Rouge leader tried to create a peasant farming society.
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/pol-pot.htm
I think tweeb’s implication was that low-tech farming methods didn’t work very well for Pol Pot. However, the whole low-tech versus high-tech argument was lost on me, because even a hand plow could be considered high tech by someone who doesn’t have one.
If by high-tech tweeb meant modern, industrial farming methods and distribution systems, I think he’s right. I don’t think our modern cities could exist without those technologies. What this has to do with animal-human hybrids, I don’t know.
Obviously related to the last line in your post was the statement that Noah was the last whose genetics were not corrupt; he was “perfect” in his generation.
The quote I furnished (Jeremiah) was clear that turning to the methods of men was evil, and those that do are cursed by their own actions. God provided for our health and healing, and we do not need, nor do we profit from other methods.
No one is trying to make a perfect world. What they are trying to do is figure out how to get a liver transplant, or a heart transplant, for someone who desperately needs one. What they’re advancing is the older use of porcine and bovine cells that produced insulin and then became human insulin produced by recombinant DNA engineering of animal islet cells.
They might be able to find ways to produce skin and bone to graft onto trauma victims. This is not a moral absolute. This is humanity doing what we need to survive.
“What exactly are these sources the Lord gave us?”
.
They are spread throughout the Word. Scores of herbs are named as necessary, as are wine, olive oil and salt. The proper methods of preparing, and combining the various foods are stated in Leviticus.
centurion316: “What does scripture have to say about nuclear weapons?”
There’s nothing specifically “nuclear” because a nuke is morally no different than a sword.
centurion316: “What about National Socialism (Nazis)?”
Scripture is clear that we are supposed to follow the civil authorities except where those authorities violate God’s laws. Obey civil authorities: Romans 13:1-7. Disobey when God’s commands are violated: Acts 5:27-29.
centurion316: “I think that I have a pretty good eye for evil, while I appreciate help from the Scriptures, I think that I can do pretty good on my own.”
Fair enough. As I wrote, scripture itself directs us to test doctrine, and I provided many Bible quotes to back that up. If you aren’t arguing from a Christian perspective, then I won’t question your ability to discern evil “pretty good” on your own.
My comments were directed at Christians. We aren’t (based on scripture) supposed to go around saying something is good or evil without testing it against the revealed Word. That is not optional for Christians:
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/discerntestjudge.html
If we implant 100% human DNA into a chimp egg cell and implant it into a female chimp's womb, and the resulting embryo looks human, is it a human being with human rights?
What about a human nucleus with one chimp gene? Two genes?
editor-surveyor: “The quote I furnished (Jeremiah) was clear that turning to the methods of men was evil, and those that do are cursed by their own actions.”
Again, I ask you to define what the methods of man are. Are you opposed to taking an aspirin? I’m not trying to be insulting here. What exactly are you saying we shouldn’t be doing? Are we supposed to just let people suffer and die if we pray and God doesn’t miraculously heal them?
Actually helping and loving other people IS a moral absolute.
James 2:8 “If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right.”
There are limits on that of course. We can’t morally murder someone to help someone else. Personally? I’m not going to walk by a wounded traveler or simply say a prayer on his behalf. I’m going to try to act like a good Samaritan.
editor-surveyor: “They are spread throughout the Word. Scores of herbs are named as necessary, as are wine, olive oil and salt. The proper methods of preparing, and combining the various foods are stated in Leviticus.”
Are you saying we can’t use something to help someone unless the treatment is specifically listed in scripture?
“Love works no ill to his neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,” Rom.13:10
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