Obama is not a Native US Citizen

Bouvier's Law Dictionary ^ | 1928 | William Edward Saldwin

[bushpilot1]

Meandering through my 1928 Edition of Bouvier's Law Dictionary on page 833, Native, Native Citizen is defined:

Those born in a country, of parents who are citizens.

If Obama does not meet the standards of a native citizen how can he be a natural born citizen.

[Mr Rogers]

1 Part of the question concerning Vattel is, “When the writers of the Constitution wrote NBC, were they thinking of Vattel or common law?”

NBS was a standard legal phrase in English law, and multiple courts have found that the meaning of NBC was carried over from NBS.

Had they been thinking of Vattel, they would have written, “He must be indigenous...”, that being the phrasing used by Vattel.

2 Suppose, for the sake of argument, that Vattel was commonly translated NBC prior to the Constitution. One would still need to ask if NBC is rooted in common law as a legal term, or if one sentence in a philosophy book is the limit of what was intended. And to date, the courts have been pretty consistent in looking to common law - where it was an established phrase - rather than one sentence in a book.

Vattel never tried to address what it would mean if an alien father had a child by a native woman, and the child was raised as a native independent of the absent father. That wasn’t his purpose in writing.

Philosophically, a native or indigenous person is someone born in the country of native parents. He was trying to show that meant the natural allegiance was to that country. He wasn’t concerned with Indians, illegitimate children, anchor babies, tourists passing thru, etc. He didn’t need to be. He wasn’t trying to write law.

To remove Obama, you don’t need a little evidence, you need enough to overturn an election based on a fact that everyone knew, and no one with standing (legislature, state official, Congress, other candidates, etc) thought disqualifying.

To prevail in court, you need to show that Vattel was not AN influence, but the only possible source of meaning - and I think you will admit that is not the case. No court will touch it if they have an out. And they do - an interpretation prevalent for over 100 years, rooted in the common law that preceded the Constitution.

[Mr Rogers]

“Yes, but are you a Manchurian Usurper?”

Ah yes...another well thought out and reasoned response.

Here is my answer - if I am, then so are Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh. And I’ll choose their company over an Internet poster called Canedawg.

[Canedawg]

So, you condone Ozero’s failure to produce his authentic long form birth certificate, in spite of the turmoil it is causing?

Your posts seem pretty dumb, ya know.

[Mr Rogers]

What I condone - IF you would bother with reading before posting - is the idea that Obama can be President even with a foreign born father. In that, I’m in agreement with about 99.5% of the world.

“Your posts seem pretty dumb, ya know.”

I’m devastated. Now I’ll probably spend the rest of the week as an emotional wreck...

[Red Steel]

I guess you can feel free to try to continue to convince folks that Obama’s loyalty to England disqualifies him. What you won’t be able to do is stop them from laughing in your face...

BS. It's not how Obama or anyone else feels to any particular country knucklehead. What disqualifies Obama as an NBC is being born a Kenyan and receiving a foreign citizenship at birth from his father. He doesn't get a choice. Obama is not and never will be a natural born US citizen.

You can laugh all you want - we know and you know you are wrong. There are Constitutional Scholars that say the same as I do. For instance this guy:

"Dr. Edward J. Erler, a political science professor at Cal State San Bernardino, has spoken out against the political malaise and the popular misconception that has blossomed around the continued awarding of citizenship to virtually anyone born in the country. Echoing the sentiments of Eastman, Erler points out that the framers of the 14th Amendment sought to reassure the Congress in 1868 that the citizenship provisions did not cover—nor were they crafted with the intent to grant—citizenship to the children of foreign nationals born in the United States. Specifically, the myriad of Native American tribes were not covered under the citizenship clause because they clearly owed allegiance to their tribes and therefore were not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government a clear indication Erler says that jurisdiction is indeed contingent on exclusive allegiance. And a child’s allegiance must follow that of its parents during its years as a minor."

American Jackpot: The Remaking of America by Birthright Citizenship

[Seizethecarp]

“A marriage in which these three circumstances concur, although null and void, will have the effect of entitling the wife, if she be in good faith, to enforce the rights of property, which would have been competent to her if the marriage had been valid, and of rendering the children of such marriage legitimate.”

Such a marriage does not create dual citizenship for the children under the BNA of 1948, which appears to have been the concern of the founders.

While the wife may enforce property rights, the UK, after proper discovery in Kenya and HI, would likely decline to consider BHO II to be one of the children of BHO Sr that was actually “governed by the BNA of 1948”, as Obama’s campaign so cleverly dangled before the opposition like a red flag in front of a bull.

Why would Obama’s campaign dangle this UK statute out to the public in a statement obviously drafted by lawyers if they didn't have an back door escape? Note that the campaign only said the BNA of 1948 governed BHO Sr’s children, NOT BHO II specifically.

It was Factcheck, not Obama’s campaign that jumped to put forward the assumption that BHO II specifically was a UK subject at birth. That assumption is based on a non-bigamous marriage, which the 1948 BNA’s governance specifically excludes, but Factcheck didn't examine that issue before they declared BHO II to be a UK subject at birth.

If a bigamous marriage were introduced into evidence, BHO II would not be a UK subject at birth and would not be a dual citizen and no violation of that aspect of the founder's intent. Of course, as yet there has been no SCOTUS ruling on point to Obama’s fact set, so I am only speculating.

Roger Ailes, Rush and Coulter do their homework and may view the NBC issue to be a trap because the bigamy could well negate Obama’s dual citizenship status at birth.

Obama was confident that he could deflect a challenge to his NBC status caused by his UK subject father, and he was right. He gamed the system though distortion and complicity of the MSM, Hillary, McCain and all of the elites, especially in taking advantage of superficial ambiguities in the WKA decision that can be twisted to support a conclusion that Wong was NBC. Obama was inaugurated in spite of a public declaration leading to an assumption that he was a subject of the Queen at birth.

What Obama is obviously NOT confident about is the “born on US soil” aspect of his NBC status.

[little jeremiah]

Regarding the bigamy aspect, from what I’ve read, there is a lot of murkiness surrounding 0bama Sr’s marraige to Kezia, dates of their first son’s birth, when 0 Sr left for the US, whether they had a legal marriage at that time or ever, etc.

[El Gato]

If a bigamous marriage were introduced into evidence, BHO II would not be a UK subject at birth and would not be a dual citizen and no violation of that aspect of the founder's intent.

Their intent went to foreign influence, not merely dual nationality. I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that BO is not influenced by his father's nationality.

But you may be right about them throwing out that bone, to distract from the real meat.

[Seizethecarp]

“Regarding the bigamy aspect, from what I’ve read, there is a lot of murkiness surrounding 0bama Sr’s marriage to Kezia, dates of their first son’s birth, when 0 Sr left for the US, whether they had a legal marriage at that time or ever, etc.”

There are conflicting dates regarding Kezia in newspaper interviews and in Dreams Obama claims that only the children of the Ndsandjo marriage were able to prove their mother's marriage and to inherit from BHO Sr. I regard anything Obama says in Dreams as highly suspect.

What seems most likely to me is that Kezia’s tribal marriage was legal and recognized in UK Colonial Kenya under the Marriage Act of 1902 and that bigamy was unlawful under that act EVEN FOR MUSLIMS!

See Kenya Marriage Act of 1902 paragraph #49:

49. Whoever contracts a marriage under this Act, being at the time married in accordance with native law or custom or in accordance with Mohammedan law to any person other than the person with whom such marriage is contracted, shall be guilty of an offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

kenyalaw.org/family/statutes/...?file=The+marriage+act.pdf

The best account I have found regarding the Kezia-BHO Sr marriage is from the Daily Mail:

“Barack was also worried about what his father would think because I was so young, but he gave us his approval. He sent my mother and father 14 cows for my dowry.

“Barack’s father was only a cook so it was a big sacrifice. Very soon after, we were married.”

That was January 1957. Kezia and Barack Snr set up home in Jericho, a section of Nairobi created for government employees, and began a family.

First son Roy was born in March 1958. Kezia insisted: “Barack was a good husband.”

It was not long before Barack’s potential was noticed by his employees and he was offered a scholarship to the US.

By the summer of 1959, he was bound for Hawaii, leaving Kezia three months pregnant with Auma.

Kezia said: “I went with him to the airport. He gave me a cuddle and I was crying.

“He said, ‘Bye bye, see you later when I come back.’”

Instead, Barack Sr met Barack Jr's mother, Ann, in Honolulu. She was an 18-year-old fellow student from Kansas and within months they were united in what appears to have been a bigamist marriage.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506338/Barack-Obamas-stepmother-living-Bracknell-reveals-close-bond-—mother.html#ixzz0o6vvDCit

Without proper discovery in a court of law and unfettered access to documents and witnesses in Kenya and HI, we won't know the legal truth of whether Obama was a UK subject at birth.

[El Gato]

The translation is in the footnotes, thus what was immediately above them doesn’t necessary relate to them, and in this case, it didn’t.

[little jeremiah]

Thanks.

[El Gato]

In order to show how an adjective is used, you kinda have to use nouns. (Like, duh.) The relevant usage examples of natural-born and native-born entered the language as modifiers of the noun subject.

Of course they did, because there were no English citizens at that time, only subjects. But that does not mean that "natural born citizens" have the same requirments relative to birth in the country or outside it to other natural born citizens, as "natural born subjects" had. Changing the one word changes the meaning of the "term of art". In English or French. The representatives of the French Monarchy wrote "sujects naturels" in that treaty of commerce with the fledgling US (in conjunction with French speaking US diplomats, most likely Ben Franklin himself, who was at the time the US ambassador to France), while Vattel wrote "naturels" while writing of "cityons" and did so earlier than that treaty was written.

[El Gato]

Didn’t forget. Didn’t forget that I spent 2 years living in Taiwan, and another couple living in Iceland, all before I was 12.

CCK and Keflavik?

< But by anyone’s definition, I’m still a NBC.

Yes you are, assuming you were one before moving there. I just could not figure out why you said he was raised in the US, since we know he spent several of his most formative years in Indonesia, living and going to school with the Indonesians, and going to Mosque with his Indonesian stepfather. Hardly the same thing. But still not disqualifying if he had been an NBC to begin with.

[ml/nj]

Leave me alone. You have no idea what you are talking about.

ML/NJ

[El Gato]

Instead, Barack Sr met Barack Jr's mother, Ann, in Honolulu. She was an 18-year-old fellow student from Kansas and within months they were united in what appears to have been a bigamist marriage.

SA was 17 when BO was conceived, her birthday being November 29th, '42. By the time they were "married" she would have been 18, and was almost 3 months shy of 19 on BO's indicated birth date of Aug. 4, '61. Fortunately for BHO Sr, the age of consent in Hawaii was 14 at that time, so no statutory rape was involved.

Of course if that had been my 17 y/o daughter, a shotgun might have been involved, irregardless of the ethnicity of the scallywag.

[El Gato]

Roger Ailes, Rush and Coulter do their homework and may view the NBC issue to be a trap because the bigamy could well negate Obama’s dual citizenship status at birth.

It shouldn't matter. If BHO Sr is the acknowledged father, then BHO Jr was not born of two citizen parents. OTOH, if Frank Davis or Malcom X or some black sailor was the father.. and the birth certificate reflects that, or doesn't show a father at all, then Junior is an NBC. But unless it shows a name other than Barack Hussien Obama II, that would seem unlikely.

[El Gato]

You should look at it sometime in a library, if you ever go.

I've been going to libraries since oh about 1958 or so, maybe a little longer. There was a nice, if small, Carnegie library a block from my elementary school. My wife is a college professor, and the school where she is a department chair has a very nice library, much larger than a school their size would normally have. Don't go so much anymore, since most of what I want to know I can look up on line. I do recall going through two different collections of Thomas Jefferson's papers in their "stacks", trying to verify a quote, which is most likely a bogus one.

The (not for profit) research institute I work for has a pretty large library. The US Army command where I'm currently assigned also has a small library. Neither have just technical materials though I doubt the latter has the OED though, the former might.

So yes, I am familiar with libraries. Just a wee bit.

[Seizethecarp]

“SA was 17 when BO was conceived, her birthday being November 29th, ‘42. By the time they were “married” she would have been 18, and was almost 3 months shy of 19 on BO’s indicated birth date of Aug. 4, ‘61. Fortunately for BHO Sr, the age of consent in Hawaii was 14 at that time, so no statutory rape was involved.”

Would anyone beyond SADO’s parents be motivated to conceal the pregnancy of SADO and the birth of a biracial baby to (hint hint) to a recently arrived foreign exchange student funded by a leftist philanthropic literacy communist (KGB infiltrated) front organization???

See:

"ProLiteracy noted that its predecessor organization, Laubach Literacy International, along with literacy pioneer Elizabeth Mooney, provided foreign aid money for President Obama's father, Barack H. Obama Sr., to continue his studies in the U.S. Before attending the University of Hawaii, Obama Sr. had been working for the Kenyan Government Literacy Project under the direction of Mooney. He co-authored three books on literacy in his native Luo language, which were used to teach Kenyans about health, agriculture and citizenship."

Source:

http://www.proliteracy.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=690&srcid=334

Would those motivated to conceal such a wanton indiscretion by a high-profile student that they were sponsoring (whose transportation to HI they had funded) be perhaps motivated to arrange a secret marriage in Feb of 1961 (vital record index released by HI) followed by a free trip for the new goo-goo-eyed African-besotted bride back to Kenya (perhaps being unaware of Obama Srs. bigamy) to deliver the potentially disastrous for public relations baby there out of sight where little BHO II would be unlikely to cause condemnation of the whole African Student Airlift???

Means, motive, opportunity is there for SADO to be FULLY FUNDED take a nice slow boat-ride to Kenya (or even a jet or turboprop) soon after Feb 1961 BY HERSELF (or with a chaperon) leaving BHO Sr. to uphold the good intentions and good name of the literacy project and free to further plans of the pan-African/pan-Global Marxists for Obama Sr.'s role in post-colonial Kenya intact!

[ml/nj]

I doubt the latter has the OED though, the former might.

You see, my personal library has the 20 volume 2nd edition of the OED. It probably means something, but I'm not quite sure how to express it.

ML/NJ

[Mr Rogers]

Not sure what CCK stands for - we were at Taipei for a year, then Taichung.

Living in Indonesia isn't disqualifying, nor is going to a mosque nor having an Indonesian stepfather - who probably had far more influence on Barry than Barack Sr.

In honesty, being a NBC probably was a poor idea for how to ensure loyalty to the USA, although it may have made some sense for the first 100 years. Beyond that, the electorate SHOULD prevent America-haters from becoming President, but JFKerry and Obama are evidence that a large part of our population hates America, or feels guilty for American success.

I don't have an ounce of white guilt in me, so that may be why I don't understand the election of Obama. It is beyond me how anyone could be tempted to ever vote for anyone who attended Rev Wright's church - not for President, not for trash collector!

My Filipina wife and I have a pretty comfortable life now, but we also worked our tails off. I worked 12 hour days as normal in my military career, and was deployed 5-6 months each year for much of it. My wife put in 20 hour days going to nursing school, and trying to learn medicine in her third language...while raising teenage kids while I was in Saudi or Turkey.

We don't have the life we now have because I'm white or because she is brown. We've worked and saved, lived in rentals much of our life, bought cars for cash and drove them until we literally gave them away. We don't have TV and maybe once a month eat out at a place where the meals top out at $12...so what makes others think we've 'won life's lottery'?

I paid $4000 in property taxes last year while home schooling my youngest daughter at our own expense, and on Tuesday, AZ has a ballot initiative to increase the sales tax 18% 'for the children'! The local school district gives free laptops to kids, and then wonders why they can't make ends meet????

We just sent $5000 to my wife's family in the Philippines so they can buy farm land and WORK their way out of poverty. THAT is charity I understand - not giving to bums who sit on their butts and wait for the next handout!

No, I don't understand modern America. The average credit card debt is around $8000, but since half of cardholders don't have debt, that means about half of them have CC debt of $15,000+. They spend evenings watching American Idol and playing video games, then wonder why they aren't getting ahead in life. Then they vote for someone who they KNEW hated America, and capitalism, and freedom, who wants America weak and wants to actively kill anyone who survives an abortion - WHY??????????

The problem with Obama isn't his Kenyan father. It is his marxism and class hatred and racial hatred - and ALL of that was KNOWN beyond doubt BEFORE the election!

I don't understand it, but it won't be beaten in the courts. If we don't win at the ballot box, there will be nothing left to 'win'. The courts won't save us.

Sorry for the rant. It is largely immaterial to the discussion, but my wife is sleeping after working her 12 hour night shift and I'm left thinking about how much my country changed during my 52 years. My Dad entered the military as a teenager in WW2, and worked his way up to Colonel with a HS education. Had he lived, I don't think he would recognize the country anymore...

In a flight suit in Taichung 1965:

Being a tourist with my sister 1965