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Pope John Paul II 'whipped himself to feel closer to God'
timesonline ^ | January 27, 2010

Posted on 01/27/2010 11:35:46 AM PST by JoeProBono

The late Pope John Paul II, who has been put on the fast track to sainthood by the Vatican, regularly whipped himself as an act of penance to feel closer to God, and signed a secret document saying that would step down as pontiff if he became incurably ill, according to a new book.

Why a Saint? by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican "postulator" in charge of the canonisation process, says the Polish-born Pope performed self flagellation as a bishop in Krakow and continued to do so in the Vatican after being elected Pope in 1978.

"In his wardrobe, among his vestments, there hung on a clothes hanger a special belt for trousers which he used as a whip," Monsignor Oder says. He said self flagellation was "an instrument of Christian perfection" emulating the sufferings of Jesus Christ....

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Religion
KEYWORDS: 1tim47; catholic; holy; holyfather; jpb; penance; pope; popejohnpaul; sainthood; selfflagellation; sin; vatican
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To: Anti-Utopian

Salvation is a gift period end of story? Faith without works is dead, but you cannot work your way there. Works are a characteristic and a byproduct of the gift.

If the cross wasn’t sufficient we would screw up whatever we had to do on our own.


21 posted on 01/27/2010 12:13:23 PM PST by zek157
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To: JoeProBono
It is an act of mortification, in which the practitioner learns to not be ruled by the comforts of the body and the world. John the Baptist mortified himself by wearing an uncomfortable hair shirt. To one who is unfamiliar with the practice, it can seem madness. Conforming the will through suffering and prayer can allow one to unite with Christ, who suffered for all.

The faith alone vs. faith plus works argument has been addressed ad nauseam elsewhere, so it will hardly be settled here.

22 posted on 01/27/2010 12:16:02 PM PST by CASchack
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To: domenad
I get so weary of this Catholic vs Protestant crap. Can't you people realize that we all believe in Christ as our Redeemer and Savior and join together as brothers and sisters?

The heads of all of our churches are human and the heads of the protestant faiths have failed their churches as well (i.e. making homosexuality acceptable within their church).

Nothing makes Satan (yes he is real) happier than to see Christ's believers fighting among themselves.

23 posted on 01/27/2010 12:17:32 PM PST by Guardian Sebastian
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To: abracapocus

Bodily exercise is just what the Greek word Paul used here means and can mean self control and discipline but beating one’s self with a belt? No. If fact Paul makes clear at Col. 2:23 such things are worthless.


24 posted on 01/27/2010 12:19:15 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Petronski

1Cr 9:27 “but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.” NASB

This is from a better translation.

P.S. I thank the Lord I live in America so that I could leave the RCC without getting burned at a stake.


25 posted on 01/27/2010 12:19:35 PM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult

26 posted on 01/27/2010 12:21:18 PM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: JoeProBono
Emo kids cut themselves.

It's a mental disorder.

27 posted on 01/27/2010 12:25:55 PM PST by humblegunner
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To: abracapocus; Persevero; Mr Rogers; streetpreacher
exercise (from Strong's Concordance):

gymnazo;
1) to exercise naked (in a palaestra or school of athletics)
2) to exercise vigorously, in any way, either the body or the mind

28 posted on 01/27/2010 12:26:20 PM PST by Dr. Thorne (Buy Gold and Guns Now!)
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To: CASchack

29 posted on 01/27/2010 12:28:54 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: Guardian Sebastian; CASchack

Certainly not trying to create divisions, but if this is just an act of subduing the flesh, as it were, over a practice to help ensure salvation then it’s all good. I just get concened when it may appear to people that they have to do something, or could do something, to earn salvation apart from having faith in what Christ has already done.


30 posted on 01/27/2010 12:29:37 PM PST by Obadiah (Ramirez, we're oscar mike! Stay frosty.)
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To: fishtank

(rolls eyes) Yes, because the RCC still burns people at the stake.


31 posted on 01/27/2010 12:38:51 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Obadiah
""""St Paul’s letter to the Ephesians tells us: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.”""""""

That says it all. We CAN NOT do anything to or for ourselves to be saved. NOTHING, or else GOD is a liar, which HE is not.

You are not wrong.

32 posted on 01/27/2010 12:39:17 PM PST by annieokie
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To: fishtank

There are few greater enemies of the Catholic Church than those who “flee Her” in confusion.


33 posted on 01/27/2010 12:42:51 PM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: fishtank

Well living in American wouldn’t save you if you left the Muslem faith.


34 posted on 01/27/2010 12:49:47 PM PST by Guardian Sebastian
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To: Obadiah

You have it right. It isn’t a device by which one gains Salvation, but to grow in holiness.

There is nothing wrong with disciplining the flesh so as to enhance spiritual growth and deny the body, and offering the suffering as part of a prayer for the conversion of sinners. Unfortunately, the secular world will look at it and depict it as some sort of freakish masochism, which it isn’t.


35 posted on 01/27/2010 12:52:49 PM PST by CASchack
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult

He should have been listening to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYYJ25jxl3s


36 posted on 01/27/2010 1:08:06 PM PST by streetpreacher (Arminian by birth, Calvinist by the grace of God)
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To: JoeProBono

And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.


37 posted on 01/27/2010 1:43:18 PM PST by TNPatriot (No arsenal ... is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. -RR)
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To: Guardian Sebastian
Although I am not Catholic and consider the RCC to be wrong on many issues, I can offer some partial defense of JP II. First, consider that he did the flagellation secretly and in private, so he was clearly not trying to impress mankind. Second, fasting, which is another form of self-denial, has been practiced by Christians of many denominations since the beginning.

On the other hand, the flagellation reminds me of Luther climbing the stairs in Rome on his bloody knees, before he became convinced of justification by faith alone.

38 posted on 01/27/2010 2:24:07 PM PST by hellbender
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To: zek157
Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Byproduct? How easy it is to miss the "NOT" in "NOT by faith only" when you receive your religion second-hand from flimflamers and snake oil salesmen. Salvation is indeed a gift, but God does not give it to lazy slugs too stupid to read. Either get off your fat butt and do what God commanded, or slide off your ivory bed and right into a pit. You can start by reading the Bible before you pretend like you know what's in it.

39 posted on 01/27/2010 2:47:24 PM PST by Anti-Utopian ("Come, let's away to prison; We two alone will sing like birds I' th' cage." -King Lear [V,iii,6-8])
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To: abracapocus

Aerobics as such didn’t exist in the ancient world, but exercise and it’s value was well understood by everyone - Paul included.


40 posted on 01/27/2010 7:22:38 PM PST by eclecticEel (The Most High rules in the kingdom of men ... and sets over it the basest of men.)
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