Posted on 01/27/2010 11:35:46 AM PST by JoeProBono
The late Pope John Paul II, who has been put on the fast track to sainthood by the Vatican, regularly whipped himself as an act of penance to feel closer to God, and signed a secret document saying that would step down as pontiff if he became incurably ill, according to a new book.
Why a Saint? by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican "postulator" in charge of the canonisation process, says the Polish-born Pope performed self flagellation as a bishop in Krakow and continued to do so in the Vatican after being elected Pope in 1978.
"In his wardrobe, among his vestments, there hung on a clothes hanger a special belt for trousers which he used as a whip," Monsignor Oder says. He said self flagellation was "an instrument of Christian perfection" emulating the sufferings of Jesus Christ....
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
Salvation is a gift period end of story? Faith without works is dead, but you cannot work your way there. Works are a characteristic and a byproduct of the gift.
If the cross wasn’t sufficient we would screw up whatever we had to do on our own.
The faith alone vs. faith plus works argument has been addressed ad nauseam elsewhere, so it will hardly be settled here.
The heads of all of our churches are human and the heads of the protestant faiths have failed their churches as well (i.e. making homosexuality acceptable within their church).
Nothing makes Satan (yes he is real) happier than to see Christ's believers fighting among themselves.
Bodily exercise is just what the Greek word Paul used here means and can mean self control and discipline but beating one’s self with a belt? No. If fact Paul makes clear at Col. 2:23 such things are worthless.
1Cr 9:27 “but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.” NASB
This is from a better translation.
P.S. I thank the Lord I live in America so that I could leave the RCC without getting burned at a stake.
It's a mental disorder.
gymnazo;
1) to exercise naked (in a palaestra or school of athletics)
2) to exercise vigorously, in any way, either the body or the mind
Certainly not trying to create divisions, but if this is just an act of subduing the flesh, as it were, over a practice to help ensure salvation then it’s all good. I just get concened when it may appear to people that they have to do something, or could do something, to earn salvation apart from having faith in what Christ has already done.
(rolls eyes) Yes, because the RCC still burns people at the stake.
That says it all. We CAN NOT do anything to or for ourselves to be saved. NOTHING, or else GOD is a liar, which HE is not.
You are not wrong.
There are few greater enemies of the Catholic Church than those who “flee Her” in confusion.
Well living in American wouldn’t save you if you left the Muslem faith.
You have it right. It isn’t a device by which one gains Salvation, but to grow in holiness.
There is nothing wrong with disciplining the flesh so as to enhance spiritual growth and deny the body, and offering the suffering as part of a prayer for the conversion of sinners. Unfortunately, the secular world will look at it and depict it as some sort of freakish masochism, which it isn’t.
He should have been listening to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYYJ25jxl3s
And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
On the other hand, the flagellation reminds me of Luther climbing the stairs in Rome on his bloody knees, before he became convinced of justification by faith alone.
Byproduct? How easy it is to miss the "NOT" in "NOT by faith only" when you receive your religion second-hand from flimflamers and snake oil salesmen. Salvation is indeed a gift, but God does not give it to lazy slugs too stupid to read. Either get off your fat butt and do what God commanded, or slide off your ivory bed and right into a pit. You can start by reading the Bible before you pretend like you know what's in it.
Aerobics as such didn’t exist in the ancient world, but exercise and it’s value was well understood by everyone - Paul included.
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