And so I'd like to ask and to understand.
Your response is one of those I would value.
Ultimately I say yes.
I guess for each individual the answer depends on where they are at that time.
“I’d like to ask. I promise I don’t mean this in an unkind way. I would really like to know.”
You go first — When you know you are just one or two heart beats away from the end of your life and you are taking your last breaths, and you know the end is near — Who are you praying to, “an organism or to God?”
First of all the core belief that the earth was created 6000 years ago is totally erroneous. The SECOND EARTH AGE was RECREATED 6000 years ago. The first earth age was millions of years old as Science has proved. It was destroyed at Satan’s rebellion by a flood which was universal. Man was created on the 6th day and Adam and Eve were created on the 8th day. Take your brains out of the Christian box and read the Scriptures and THINK!!!
The problem with that theory is: If you are a believer of God and Jesus Christ, evolution would nullify some KEY points of the Bible.
The Bible says that death came into the world through Adam’s sin. If Adam evolved, death would have to have occurred already. -Which nullifies the sin issue making Jesus’ death on the cross as atonement for sin useless.
This is one reason the evolutionists strive SO hard to convince us. If evolution is the truth, then the Bible is false.
I’ve never had a problem with it either way. I don’t believe in the young Earth theory but I also do not believe in neo-atheist interpretation of evolution nor in many of the nonscientific and nearly wholly made of stories that some craft around remnants of bone. Science does not need to be in conflict with religion. It wasn’t for Newton, Galileo, Copernicus and many others. Many like to cast the debate involving the particulars of evolution and creation in simpleton terms. I think that Science benefits from debate. It spurs a challenge to those who are convinced they have the right hypothesis and that is always a good thing because history shows that conventional wisdom whether scientific or not is very often wrong.
“Suppose you became convinced that instead man had developed from lower organisms over billions of years”
First of all I would suggest you at least review the creationist evidence. The vast majority of people have not, enthralled by what the left-lib media / education establishment has told them. It is NOT as one-way as you have been led to believe. I have a science degree and am working on my 2nd.
Second I don’t think it’s helpful to think of it in that way. Some people like to set up the credibility of the Bible based on this or that, and I don’t think we’re told that’s a good thing to do.
The most important thing to know is that evolution is a doctrine, with no evidence, a belief of a religion that has various guises and is often referred to as “humanism”.
But that’s far from the only issue for most people who don’t believe in creation. The Bible says people lived to be ~900 years before the flood. This is not our experience today, and so most people who don’t believe in creation also say that’s not true. But somehow they forget that before the flood there were elk with a 16ft antler span, there were wooly rhinos, 16ft long turtles, 80ft sharks, reptiles that lived for hundreds of years and never stopped growing just like their cousins today, so got huge. There are many skeletons of 12ft tall people found. This is also outside our experience, and we would consider crazy unless we had actually dug up the fossils & seen them. So these things that you consider impossible are not as impossible as you think. Our world is very samey and unchanging today. It was not always that way.
As a science student, I can understand your question. All I can say is dig deeper. Take an anatomy class and try to figure out how humans evolved (you can audit the class for free). It is statistically unfathomable. Just take the immune system and look deeply into it, mathematically, there aren’t enough years. The x chromosome that no one can live without, how did that happen? Dig deeply and you will find the hand of God.
I do not believe in evolution. Here on FR, you will find rabid evolutionists pushing their Nietzsche/ Darwin beliefs like a drug. This started with the Garden of Eden and the apple. The desire to know things and be like God. I am not saying you should not thirst for knowledge, but I am saying to avoid the temptation to think your knowledge base has outgrown God. Praying for your guidance.
I speak only for myself.
My understanding of scripture, particularly the Torah, is that it is a multi-layered writing, of which the literal story of creation is only the simplest level.
Deeper reading into the Torah reveals understanding that makes the literal accuracy of the simple story unimportant. Remember that the author is writing from a perspective outside of time.
That being said, evolution as it is presented by Darwin’s followers, is an unacceptable belief, simply because it is the most inelegant, least likely and most improbable accounting for what we see in our world.
In addition to not passing the smell test, it is (despite what its adherents claim) not a real theory, because it is not demonstrable or repeatable.
People believing in a six day creation look far less silly than people believing in spontaneous punctuated equilibrium.
The Bible exists more for edification than explanation. If you are a real student of science, I would guess that there are things about evolutionary “theory” that make you at least uneasy.
If evolution is true then Jesus was either wrong or a liar and therefor, not the unblemished Lamb who was able to take away our sins.
If you believe in evolution, you cannot turn around and say that you believe that Jesus is the Savior.
They are mutually exclusive.
> I’ve never had that problem because I was a science student before I became a Christian and it has never seemed a conflict.
I am in much the same boat as you, FRiend — tho’ I got there in a different way. I started out as a committed Christian (and so remain), then I visited Drumheller Alberta and saw and touched the dinosaur bones there. That blew away the 6,000 timeframe year idea permanently and forever.
Then I moved to New Zealand and was confronted by The Ultimate Problem that proves at least part of the Evolutionary theory beyond a shadow of all reasonable doubt: how did New Zealand’s flightless birds, the weta and the tuatara come to be found only here and nowhere else?
The two theories are not incompatible. Evolution explains how things happened and suggests a likely timeframe, and Creation explains Who was responsible for making things happen, and His Divine Purpose for making these things happen.
But what is patently and provably false is that Creation took 6,000 years only and without the evolutionary process. I’d even go a step further and confidently assert that either the Great Flood did not cover the entire globe, or Noah’s Ark had remarkable navigational capabilities and modern petrol engines, or at the very least steam power and a regular series of coaling stations between Turkey and the South Pacific. It would also need to have been capable of navigating either the Cape of Good Hope or the Cape Horn intact: once on the way here, and once on the way back.
Science is and always has been the Bible Scholar’s best friend. We are foolish to kick against the pricks.
But why would I become convinced of that? That's like asking, what "would happen if you became a totally different person than who you are today?" I don't know that such a thing can be answered.
You can't believe in evolution and believe the bible is a true document of the Word of God.
If you cling to evolution, you must let go of God.
Study the doctrines of the anthropology of man. The materialist perspective is also closely associated with Montanism, Federalism, Gnosticism, and denial of the human soul or spirit as discernible from physical entities.
Dualism, advances to recognize the Body and the Soul, a condition which Scripture very well recognizes and identifies with the natural man.
The trichotomous perspective of anthropology, discerns a body, soul, and a human spirit as being the man created in God’s image.
So it is possible to be Christian and be a scientist who studies the creation, observes physical laws, and rationally uses that knowledge in the exercise of his gifts. On the contrary, there are those who identify science with a materialist perspective, denying the separate existence of souls or spirit.
This addresses the topic of scientific creationism, as opposed to theologic creationism. Theologic creationism, further explores and discerns the origin of human life of the soul.
Tertullian and the Montanists held a position considered heretical by Aquinas and Jerome, that souls have always existed and are transferred to the human body by materialist mechanisms in the semen, also known as a Seminal perspective of the origin of life. Tertullian therefore promoting the perspective of transfer of a soul, coined the term Traducianism or transfer of the soul.
The Traducian view counters the Federal view of the origin of human life. The Federal view, based upon Rom 5 and 1stCor15, holds that Adam was the Federal base of guilt in the human race and the natural man is imputed with the same guilt from Adam at the point of birth of each human, namely at the emission from the womb, not at conception. This is also closely associated with the theological creationist perspective.
There is another important aspect when studying this topic.
It boils down to primal causes and the object upon which one’s faith is actually devoted.
Is the object of faith, that which God Himself has provided for salvation or is it His Creation?
Some in our generation have been trained to place a higher priority upon what we can judge ourselves independent of any other source, instead of placing faith in Christ first and accepting His Word. Attempting to use reason as an arbiter of faith, begs the question. Either our faith in through Christ or in something other than Him.
It’s been said that all one needs is a smidgen more faith, than no faith whatsoever, to have a saving faith. Anything added to faith alone in Christ alone, voids that faith as a saving faith. Once saved, God performs His work and we are always saved, though continually sanctified only as we remain in fellowship with Him.
It is simple. The 'god' of evolution is not the same Heavenly Father that predestined Abraham and his children. A person cannot serve two masters.
any belief in evolution calls Genesis a lie
Creation is why we wear clothes
creation is why Jesus had to die for sin, if we evolved, there was no creation, there was no special person, Adam created first, nor was there Eve, so, the reason Jesus came to die for sin is a lie
Creation tells us the order of events, the creation of the Earth first, the sun days later, evolution calls that a lie
Go back to the Bible, write down the order of events in Genesis, and see for yourself that evolution doesn’t agree with any of them
10. Make Your Choice: Genesis or Evolution?
Some people believe that if you make the days of creation ages (long periods of time), then Genesis chapter 1 teaches the same as evolution. They believe that the order of events in Genesis 1 is the same order of events as given by the evolutionists. Let us see if this is really true:
Evolutionists say that the SUN came before the EARTH.
But God says the sun was made on DAY ______ and the earth was made on DAY _____. Therefore the earth is _______ days older than the sun! Was there LIGHT even before the sun was made? _______ On what day was this LIGHT created? DAY _____
Evolutionists say that life must first begin in the sea (in the ocean). They teach that after millions of years some life forms eventually moved onto the land.
But God says life in the ocean appeared on DAY _______ and life on land first appeared on DAY ______ (plant life). Thus, life on land appeared _____ DAYS before life appeared in the oceans (marine life).
Evolutionists say that reptiles came before birds (because they believe that birds evolved from reptiles).
But God says that birds were made on DAY ______ and land animals (which would included land reptiles) were not made until DAY ______. Birds are _____ DAY older than reptiles! Could birds have evolved from reptiles? ______ Certainly reptiles did not evolve from birds! (Not even the evolutionists would say this!). The Bible says God made the birds and God made the reptiles. Reptiles did not precede birds by hundreds of thousands of years.
“Every thinking person knows that birds were created before reptiles, because that is what God has told us in His Word.”
Evolutionists say that land mammals came before whales (because they believe that whales evolved from land mammals).
But God says that whales and other great monsters of the sea were created on DAY _____ and land mammals were not made until DAY _____. Which came first, the whale or the pig? _________________ Do you think the whale has evolved from pig-like animals? ________ Therefore whales are ______ DAY older than land mammals! For a land mammal to become a whale he would need to return to the water, lose his hair and grow about 50 times as big! Do you think this really happened? ______ A large elephant (the largest land mammal) weighs about 7 tons! A blue whale (the largest kind of whale) weighs about 150 tons! The whale did not evolve by chance; it was created by God!
Evolutionists say that plant life is impossible without insects because the pollination process (the way plants reproduce) requires insects such as bees.
But God says that insects (creeping things) were not created until DAY _____ and plant life appeared on DAY ______. This means that plant life appeared _______ DAYS before insects. Do you think plants and flowers could survive for 3 ages without insects? ______ Do you think plants and flowers could survive for 3 days without insects? _____
“I was on time! The all-wise Creator created me at just the right time–on the sixth day of the creation week! That’s when I started making honey!!”
Evolutionists say that ape-like creatures came along thousands of years before man (because they believe that man evolved from ape-like creatures).
But God says that men and apes were both created on DAY _______.
Evolutionists say that the sun must have been here before life could begin (because they believe life began as the sun’s rays beat down upon the primitive oceans).
But God says that life (vegetation) appeared on DAY _____ and the sun was not made until DAY ______. It is possible for life to begin without the sun but can life begin without the CREATOR? ______ Who is the source of life, the sun or the CREATOR (see Acts 17:28)? _______ Life owes its existence not to the SUN but to the SON OF GOD (see John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16).
Please indicate on which DAY of creation the following were made:
_______ Whales
_______ God rested on this day
_______ Fish
_______ The earth
_______ The stars
_______ Insects (bees)
_______ Land Reptiles
_______ Trees
_______ Flowers
_______ Monkeys
_______ The Sun
_______ Birds
_______ Elephants
_______ Man
_______ Sharks
_______ Light
_______ Dry Land
_______ Turtles
_______ Firmament
(an expanse of space)
_______ Eagles
You cannot listen to both God and the evolutionists! They do not teach the same thing! If Genesis chapter 1 is true (and it is!), then evolution is false. If evolution is true, then Genesis chapter 1 is false, and the Bible is filled with errors. But the Lord Jesus said that the Word of God is ___________ (John 17:17) and we know that God’s Word is __________ from the ___________________ (Psalm 119:160). Who should you believe — the CREATOR or the evolutionists? Will you put your faith in the false god of the evolutionists who needs billions of years to do his work, or will you put your faith in an Almighty Creator who can create all things in 6 DAYS?
As you observe and study the world around you, you will discover that all the true facts of science and all the true laws of science agree perfectly with the Bible and with the book of Genesis! Do you think it is possible for BOOK 1 (God’s revelation in nature) to contradict BOOK 2 (God’s revelation in His Word)? _______ (see pages 14-21). Who wrote Book 1? __________ Who wrote Book 2? _____________ God is the Author of both! This is why both books say the same thing. And both books point to the greatness of the C________________, who is blessed forever, Amen (see Romans 1:25). Sad to say, the books that the evolutionists write often do not agree with the true facts of science and they certainly do not agree with God’s Word the Bible! CHOOSE you this day! (See Joshua 24:15.) Choose the true God of creation or the false God of the evolutionists (the God of chance)!
If God's statement that man is created in His image and that God Himself breathed life into man is a lie, if the reality is that we evolved from pond scum, then every other thing that God has told us in His Word has to be questioned.
Fortunately, so much Scripture has been shown and proven to be absolutely inerrant and correct, I don't have the dilemma you posted.
I have every reason to believe God and doubt man and man's ever-changing theories and beliefs.
Basically, it boils down to a lack of faith in God. Faithless men came up with the fiction of evolution because they believe that God could not make the world and its universe in six days. They believe that if one took watch parts and shook them in a burlap bag, after the required “billions and billions of years” (think Carl Sagan here), one would have a working watch. Actual observation of the effects of time on any process is that its results are wear and deterioration, and one would have a sack full of worn and broken parts. Faith in evolution counters real science.
Jesus said in Matthew 19:26, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Christians believe Jesus. If you need to have Darwin’s crutch, your god is limited to your brain’s ability to reason, pretty pitiful with its penchant for sinning. Evolutionists do not believe in the true God of Scripture Whose omnipotent creating words, “Let there be...” resulted in the entire universe. “Big Bang”, indeed.
One lie and the whole Bible is a box of chocolates.