Here's another link in case this one doesn't work
“Like a marriage that has gone bad, I believe there are enough irreconcilable differences between those who want to control and those want to be left alone that divorce is the only peaceable alternative.
Just as in a marriage, where vows are broken, our human rights protections guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution have been grossly violated by a government instituted to protect them. Americans who are responsible for and support constitutional abrogation have no intention of mending their ways.”
Unfortunately that question was answered bloodily in 1861-1865. Those who want to be left alone will be kept in the marriage by force of arms by those who want to control.
I don’t think it’s black and white enough to separate it—we’d just have people fighting over various issues within 2 bodies instead of one. Most of my Republican friends, for example, don’t agree with the currently articulated Republican “platform,” for example (nor do I) and my Democrat friends also don’t agree. We have extreme poles, but the majority of the people are closer to the middle than the poles.
FR does attract some people who embrace the more politically extreme elements of the Republican platform, but if you look at how many people voted for Ron Paul (actually a Libertarian), McCain, and others in the primaries, it would appear Republicans tend to be more moderate than not. We have to ask who the actual RINOs are? And not all Republicans are Christians or Jews or even religious (nor are all Freepers), although some religious people are very vocal, and those who aren’t usually stay quiet because it’s not politically correct to say so!
Not McCain and YOU.
Not McCain and ME.
And sure as h*ll not McCain and whoever you wanted to get the nomination.
Can we just get on with things? Elections are not wish lists. They are choices and in America on presidential general elections they are choices between TWO people.
I cried the day Ronald Reagan past away. But he ain’t coming back and he won’t be on the ballot.
So, while McCain is certainly not everything I wished he was and there are several problem areas that he has failed us on. The fact is, he is head and shoulders above ANYTHING the democrats have to offer.
There are hundreds of reasons to vote for McCain and push him as opposed to the other candidate. Here are a few:
McCain will tax less...
McCain will hold the line on terror better...
McCain will do better on borders...
McCain doesn’t hate the military...
McCain will do more to protect the unborn...
McCain will spend less...
McCain will have more respect from foreign leaders both friend and foe...
McCain will do more to keep the death tax suspended...
McCain has a more attractive spouse...
McCain will hold the line on communist expansion in South America better...
McCain is LESS succored in re: global warming...
McCain will appoint better judges...
McCain will give more respect to the right to keep and bear arms...
McCain will give more respect to free speech...
Mr. Williams is inviting me to commit treason.
This is lunacy; I will not partake in it. Taking up arms when you don’t get your way on economic policy is self-destructive.
We need to split this country. On one side, the abortion loving, non traditional marriage loving, God hating, jihadi loving, tax loving, criminal loving bleeding heart liberals.
On the other side the normal people who want to live away from the mentally disturbed.
My money is on collapse. We won't risk another civil war. We are too stubborn to survive. We will slide into European like oblivion and finally fall to something like Jihadists because we won't offend despots.
I like it. It is darned "skippy" the GOP isn't going to be anything but another part of the problem for some time to come!
And please don't try and bait me with they are better than any alternatives - I don't believe it!
CW2 PING
Could Texas and Lousiana even get along with each other?
Maybe, since they're not in the same conference.
It would be different with Texas and Oklahoma.
The ideal of the Republic died a long time ago, and we are in the death throes of the Democracy. Tyranny comes next, but what should we do?
bump
Just what, exactly, is Williams planning on separating? Name a single state where a majority of the people hold to his position.
What happened in our revolution?
We didn't like the British taxing us, so we threw them out and formed our own government ...
... which went on to tax us more than the British ever did, and with out own consent.
It's like that with revolutions, secessions, independence movements, and anti-imperial wars.
We throw off the oppressors and form our own government.
Because it's "our own" government we don't object to paying taxes.
A national elite grows up around the federal government and looks for even more tax money to spend.
Since the national elite doesn't exist in isolation from other elites it starts to resemble them.
So you more or less get what you rebelled against.
You can see something of the same process in state government right now -- even (or especially) in the most conservative states.
People are always complaining that their governor is a country club or chamber of commerce Republican and not a conservative ideologue.
What do you think would happen if your state were a country? Do you think the RINOs would automatically step aside and let you run things?
Of course there are ways of arresting the process -- tribalism, militarism, theocracy -- but they do more harm than good.
An independence movement may be justified under some circumstances.
If your rulers are stealing your land or enslaving you or are trying to uproot your language and culture, you'd do well to organize against them.
But if your complaint is high taxes, you rarely get what you want through independence.
I don't get why Walter Williams never addresses the question seriously, but treats secession as some kind of magic potion that will set everything to rights.
If it looks like the country as a whole is going down the European world on God, guns, and gays, there will be more talk of secession.
But really do you think an independent Texia would be any better at holding the line on these things than a superpower would?
Interesting thread. Thanks to every contributor.