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OS Smackdown: Linux vs. Mac OS X vs. Windows Vista vs. Windows XP
Computerworld ^ | 04/08/2008 | By Michael DeAgonia, Preston Gralla, David Ramel and James Turner

Posted on 04/09/2008 1:32:14 AM PDT by Swordmaker

Four experts defend their chosen operating systems in an opinionated free-for-all

OS Smackdown
Linux
Light on its feet and ready to strut its stuff

Mac OS X
All you need in one dynamite package
Windows Vista
The best there is (despite the bad rep)
Windows XP
Hands down, the choice of the people

Since the dawn of time -- or, at least, the dawn of personal computers -- the holy wars over desktop operating systems have raged, with each faction proclaiming the unrivaled superiority of its chosen OS and the vile loathsomeness of all others.

No matter how fierce the language or convincing the arguments, however, these battles began to seem somewhat irrelevant to regular working stiffs. While Mac OS, OS/2, Linux and many other desktop operating systems have all had their devotees over the years, the truth is that the majority of home and business users have simply used the current version of Windows as a matter of course.

Windows Vista has changed all that. Never has a Microsoft operating system been greeted with such a lack of enthusiasm from consumers and businesses alike. Whether it's because of Vista's confusing array of versions, its hefty hardware requirements, its driver issues or its invasive security features, users are resisting the upgrade to Vista and considering other options, from Mac OS X to Linux to just sticking with Windows XP, thank you very much.

Suddenly, the OS wars have a new relevance.

That's why we've asked four experts to lay out their best arguments in support of their desktop operating systems of choice:

Each is positive that his operating system is the best and will try his hardest to convince you of that -- and is not above taking a few swipes at the competition. These are not rational, disengaged reviews; these are opinionated essays meant to sway your point of view.

When you've read all the arguments, you make the call by voting in our reader poll -- and of course we welcome your own arguments in the comments area as well.

-- Valerie Potter


Linux: Light on its feet and ready to strut its stuff
Let's get the unpleasant part out of the way first: If running Adobe Premiere is the most important thing in your life, or you want to play Halo, Linux isn't going to do it for you, at least right at the moment. While most Windows software can run under Linux in one fashion or another, applications that make extensive use of hardware drivers or high-end graphics may not work right.

But for everything else, Linux is definitely the way to go.

Unlike Mac OS and Windows, Linux is free as air and open to development by folks who are motivated by the desire to make the technology better, rather than by corporate tech farms whose real interest is the bottom line. Which is all very nice, but is it any good as a desktop operating system? You bet.

Size and speed
Let's start with the hardware footprint: With the possible exception of BSD, Linux's 'sister,' Linux is the lightest thing you'll ever install on your computer. While the minimum required hardware for Windows has been bloating, and Macs need more and more horsepower to run OS X, you can still dig out your old 486 and fire up Linux without problems.

I recently got one of the One Laptop Per Child XOs -- a machine with 256MB of RAM and a power-miserly processor -- and had no trouble running Xubuntu Linux on it. Meanwhile, Windows XP needs to be sliced and diced like crazy to fit onto the same hardware.

It's not for nothing that you'll find Linux inside of devices where hardware cost is an issue, like DVRs (TiVo anyone?) and routers. I was somewhat shocked to find that my recently purchased 52-in. LCD TV has a Linux kernel inside of it. If you hunt around, I'll bet you'll find at least one device in your home running Linux.

Stability, security, transparency, flexibility
Linux is not only small, but it's also stable. I have several Windows boxes at home, and it seems like whenever I blink, something has gotten screwed up in the registry or I have a Dynamic Link Library conflict.

Linux has all the configuration data and libraries right out where you can see them, in files. You can see what's changed and make edits manually, without having to figure out which of 9 million HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE registry entries is the one you want. Even the system-configuration tools that have nice graphical user interfaces (GUI) end up generating human-readable and editable files at the end of the day.

In the recent "Pwn 2 Own" hacker challenge, computers running Mac OS X and Windows Vista were cracked, but the Linux machine wasn't. I won't claim that Linux has no security or virus problems, but they tend to be right out in the open where you can see them if you look. At the moment, there are far fewer Linux viruses out in the wild than Windows viruses, and there are fairly bullet-proof ways to detect viruses under Linux using checksums on files. Conversely, it's much easier to move your Linux system to new hardware or clone an existing system because there's no licensing. I've never had a problem moving a Linux system disk to a new computer, even when the hardware was drastically different. There's basically no way to do this on either a Windows or a Mac system.

You also have your choice of Linux distributions, from geek-friendly Debian and end-user-friendly Ubuntu to business-friendly Red Hat and Novell SUSE. And no matter which one you pick, you can rest assured that they'll all run the same apps.


The Ubuntu Linux desktop

Applications and interface
It used to be the conventional wisdom that the problem with Linux was desktop applications. But with tools such as Wine, CrossOver Linux and VMWare Player, many Windows applications run just fine under Linux these days.

And in some cases, native Linux applications may serve you just as well. OpenOffice is a mature replacement for Microsoft Office, and there are good (and free) tools for video and photo editing, audio editing, and many other common applications. Just do a quick Google search for "Linux video editing," for example, and you'll see what I mean.

More importantly, more and more applications are transitioning to Web-based versions using JavaScript or Flash/Silverlight/Flex/Air. Who cares if you can't run TurboTax on Linux, when you can use the Web-based TurboTax right from your browser?

Finally, the Linux desktop experience is now the match of any other desktop GUI in existence. The user interface is intuitive and clean, but still powerful. If you choose a user-friendly distribution like Ubuntu, installing Linux is as easy as installing Windows -- and unlike Windows, you can even "try before you buy," since distributions such as Ubuntu have a "live" install CD/DVD.

You can even run a full Linux distribution such as Damn Small Linux from a 128MB (or larger) USB drive. Did your Windows PC crash again? Plug in the USB drive, and you've got access.

Heck, most Linux distributions will even shrink a Windows partition and set up dual-booting automatically. Ignore all the fear, uncertainty and doubt you'll hear about nightmare installs and bad device support -- that's from the bad old days!

Bottom line
Linux is free, fast, small, powerful, stable and flexible. It will get you off the "new hardware every other year" life cycle and let you concentrate on being productive rather than playing nursemaid to your operating system. You almost certainly already have Linux in your home or business, even if you don't know it.

So why not give it a try on your desktop?

-- James Turner


Mac OS X: All you need in one dynamite package
Computing nirvana isn't difficult to find. If you want a simple-to-use computer that can run virtually any application you need on stylish hardware that gives you easy online access and instant connectivity to all types of satellite devices, just go to an Apple store and buy a Macintosh.

A complete software/hardware ecosystem
When it comes to integration, no other operating system can boast the unity of purpose and results that exist on the Mac platform. While the competition is busy mashing feature after feature into poorly designed products, Apple Inc. focuses on what's important: creating a software/hardware ecosystem that gets out of the way so you can do what you bought a computer to do -- work, make movies, build Web sites, communicate or crunch data.

You know what I'm taking about -- all those annoying little things that add up when using Windows. Plug in a mouse on a PC, and a little dialog box pops up exclaiming that it just sensed you plugged in a mouse, and after installing the driver, it's ready to go! This isn't a shuttle launch; I just plugged in a mouse. I'll know the operating system recognizes it as soon as I can move the pointer, so stop bugging me with alert boxes!

Apple's relentless attention to detail has created a world where hardware and software are equally polished -- so polished, in fact, that a wireless mouse, an iPod or an iPhone feels more like a natural extension of the Mac than a separate device.

For those still stuck with Windows, that kind of experience remains a mirage, always just over the horizon. With Vista, users get an operating system that comes in six -- six! -- different versions, all of them with driver issues. Many older PCs can't handle the operating system -- and even a lot of those newer "Vista Capable" machines may not be so capable after all.

Sure, you could try Linux. But the kind of integration I'm talking about isn't possible in Windows, never mind Linux. When software and hardware engineering and design are divvied up among multiple companies and communities -- each with its own agenda -- complete hardware/software unification is just not a realistic expectation. (I'll give devotees an A+ for effort, though.)

Elegance and ease of use
The glue that binds the hardware is the operating system, and Mac OS X 10.5, a.k.a. Leopard, has elegance and ease of use baked right in. Leopard easily leads the pack in terms of security, ease of installation, maintenance and integration of applications whose learning curves are so minimal Apple doesn't even bother with full manuals. That isn't an accident.

Let me just reel off a few Mac OS X advantages:


The Mac OS X 'Leopard' desktop

Run any application in the world
Other operating systems have their strengths. Windows is ubiquitous; it isn't going anywhere soon. And the collective hive of developers working to make Linux better is impressive. But Apple's switch to the Intel architecture, along with today's impressive virtualization software, means Macs can now run those other operating systems -- at full speed. That gives you access to software across all three platforms, letting you work and play without walling yourself off from the rest of the computer world.

Let me say it again: All Macs can run Windows and, consequently, all of the software that runs on Windows. All versions. At once, if you want to.

Did I mention that Leopard is a certified Unix product, too? Mac OS X is the only operating systems that can run all mainstream Windows and "*nix"-based operating systems -- and host "*nix" software natively -- with few of the usual security risks.

Security
Along with its famed user interface, one of the keys to the success of Mac OS X is the lack of malware, spyware and self-propagating viruses. We can debate the reasons -- whether it's the security inherent to the modern BSD underpinnings of Apple's code or the "security by obscurity" theory -- but Macs are not susceptible to the problems that have always plagued Windows PCs.

Let me put it in perspective: I have been working with Macs since 1993, and not a single second of downtime has been caused by a virus, spyware or malware. Think about that for a moment. Not a single second has been wasted dealing with security. And ponder this: If 100,000 viruses or malware variations targeting OS X sprang up tomorrow, that number would still pale in comparison with the malware aimed at Windows every year.

Look, it's the 21st century. Computers are everywhere; shouldn't they just work by now? Who wants to spend their time running spyware scans and virus scans? (Imagine having to run a virus scan on a microwave or DVD player.) Just because folks who use other operating systems have to put up with it doesn't mean that's the way it has to be.

Bottom line
I want more from my computer, and Apple capitalizes on its unique position as sole operating system designer, application developer, hardware engineer and media distributor, offering a seamless experience across its entire slate of product lines and services.

Macs may not "just work" exactly 100% of the time, but they sure work when I need them to. And, after all, isn't that the point?

-- Michael DeAgonia


Windows Vista: The best there is (despite the bad rep)
If you want the best operating system available today, there is only one choice: Windows Vista.

You heard me right: Vista, the operating system that people love to hate. The system that has been blamed, it seems, for everything from global warming to the U.S. economic meltdown.

I'm here to tell you that the conventional wisdom is flat-out wrong. Vista is a solid, hard-working operating system that will run whatever software you need with simplicity and grace. And it doesn't suffer from the world of woes that affect its competitors.

Interface, tweakability and extras
Why is Vista the best operating system? The interface is a good place to start. Vista has a straightforward elegance, featuring transparent windows that niftily whoosh into and out of place when you minimize or maximize them.

Don't like the way Vista looks or works? No problem; change it. From the transparency of windows down to almost every level of the operating system, there's a way to customize it. And there's plenty of free and cheap software for further tweaking.

Vista's user interface is more than just a pretty face. Windows Flip 3-D, which shows you all of your open windows in a 3-D flip book, is exceptionally useful. So are Live Thumbnails, which show small thumbnails of what's happening in your minimized windows, including real-time video.

The integration of search into every level of the OS, including the Start menu and Windows Explorer, makes finding any information easy and fast. All your documents, files and communications are instantly indexed, and searching is lightning-fast. And it integrates with Microsoft Office applications, so that when you search in Outlook for e-mail, for example, you're using the Vista search tool, and you get near instantaneous results.

Vista also includes some very nice extras, such as gadgets for the Sidebar; the Sync Center, which makes it easy to keep data on multiple PCs in sync; and easy wireless networking.

Best choice of software
An operating system by itself is a lonely thing ... in fact, a worthless thing. Its true purpose is to let you run software for work, play or hobbies.

Do you need to run enterprise software at work? Don't try it with Mac OS X or Linux -- most likely they won't work. How about games? Again, Windows rules. There simply aren't nearly as many games that run on the Mac or Linux. The same holds true for many other kinds of software.

Now, it's true that for the moment, Windows XP is superior to Vista when it comes to software compatibility. But that won't last long. The best and newest software will be built for Vista, not XP. So if you want to look to the future, not the past, Vista is the way to go.


The Windows Vista desktop

Security
With its built-in firewall, antispyware and antiphishing features, Windows Vista is far safer than XP. Making it even more secure are its under-the-hood features such as Window Service Hardening, which stops malicious activity from taking place in the file system, the Registry and the network to which the PC is attached. Similarly, Network Access Protection (NAP) stops an infected computer from making a connection to a network, ensuring that it can't infect other PCs.

Much has been made of the fact that Windows has been subject to more attacks than Mac OS X or Linux. That's not necessarily due to inherent Windows security problems, though. It's simply because there are so many more copies of Windows in existence, so malware writers target it.

Why it beats the competition
Why is Vista better than the Mac OS X, Linux and XP? Let's start with the Mac. There's no doubt that Mac OS X is a very pretty operating system. But it also runs only on expensive, proprietary hardware, and it can't run much common software, including enterprise applications and games.

Some people claim virtualization software like Parallels Desktop for Mac solves that problem, but it's not true. Virtualization software creates big problems for organizations with regard to volume licensing, technical support, creating standard enterprisewide images and so on. And as for games, consider this: Parallels can't run even the most basic Vista games such as FreeCell, Hearts, Pinball, Solitaire and Minesweeper, because it doesn't support DirectX 9.

So if you want to pay through the nose for a computer that can run only a limited number of apps and games, go ahead and throw away your money. Just keep in mind that you'll be putting money into the coffers of a company whose CEO has hypnotized its users into drinking the true-believer Kool Aid. Do you really want to join the club of users who get a big dose of their sense of self-worth from the type of computer they use?

As for Linux, if you're a fan, feel free to fly your uber-geek badge every time you boot up -- but don't expect to run your company's enterprise software, much less mainstream software and games. And do expect to become very familiar with the confusing vagaries of the specific version of Linux you've installed.

Windows XP? It's cartoonish and gauche compared with Vista, plus it lacks Vista's security, fit and polish, and extras. It's also looking backward, rather than forward. I have a dual-boot Vista/XP laptop, and every time I boot into XP instead of Vista, I cringe at what faces me.

Bottom line
If you want a safe, modern operating system that will run the software you want on reasonably priced hardware without requiring an advanced degree in geekology, Windows Vista is the only way to go.

-- Preston Gralla


Windows XP: The people's choice

The people have spoken. Windows XP rules.

Forget, for a moment, Mac OS X and Linux with their puny 8% combined market share. First, just consider how the "upgrade" from XP to Windows Vista is going.

Microsoft gamely touts increasing Vista adoption, but the backlash against XP's successor is unprecedented. I would call it a near-disaster. When is the last time a petition was circulated that gathered more than 100,000 signatures to save an operating system?

Dell Inc. has caved in to customer demand and reversed its Vista-only policy for many of its computers. Earlier, Dell had pointed out to Microsoft several mistakes made with the Vista rollout, including confusing marketing, broken drivers, hardware compatibility issues and other problems, according to a class-action lawsuit about Vista marketing.

Internal documents brought to light in the lawsuit show that Microsoft officials themselves dissed Vista shortly after its release.

I could go on and on, listing articles about tests showing that XP is faster than Vista at some tasks, explaining to anxious users how to make XP last for seven more years and instructing frustrated Vista users how to downgrade from Vista. See a common thread there?

Security
Security has always been the favorite criticism of Microsoft operating systems in general, but Service Pack 2 vastly improved the safety of XP, with better network protection, memory protection, improved e-mail security and safer browsing.

And do you really think Mac OS and Linux will be any safer if they gain enough market share to become relevant and get the full attention of hackers?

All the features you need
Of course, Microsoft will eventually force the migration to Vista. But for right now, you will get several Vista features, such as Network Access Protection, in the upcoming XP Service Pack 3. Other Vista components available for XP include Media Center, Internet Explorer 7, Media Player 11 and Windows Defender.

And there are plenty of sites that tell you how to get or at least simulate other Vista features in XP.


The Windows XP desktop

Mac or Linux -- why bother?
I use Mac OS X occasionally and have dabbled in Linux, and I've found nothing that makes me want to switch to either. Even if I liked Macs, which I don't for mostly subjective reasons, there's got to be a good reason they have such a pathetic presence in the enterprise.

The operating system is OK, but as with most things from the Apple tree, it seems to be more about style than substance. Sure, it's cool when you hover over the little icons at the bottom of the screen and they get bigger. But take a look at those icons: iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, Garage Band, etc. It's clear whom Apple is targeting, and it's not the run-of-the-mill cubicle stiff like me who's just trying to get work done.

The proprietary software/hardware marriage, the higher cost and the extra training needed all detract from the Mac's allure -- unless you have funky facial hair and say, "Dude!" a lot.

As for Linux, I've been hearing it's "ready for the desktop" for years now. Well, it's not ready. It's getting better (market share doubled recently -- to almost 1%) but there are too many distros, packages, ISOs, GNUs, Gnomes, awks, GREPs, flavors, kernels, KDEs, licenses and modules.

In other words, it's still too techie. It might be fine if you're the type of person who used to type "debug" in the DOS command line to make hexadecimal changes to standard operating system messages just for fun, like I did long ago. But I don't have time for that anymore.

I recently installed Ubuntu Linux successfully, though I found the partitioning choices a bit confusing. But to simply play an MP3 file, I had to download and install a separate package. Wireless connectivity was a joke. Absolutely ridiculous. Others at Computerworld have had problems with Linux, too.

Bottom line
Like most people, I just want to do my work. I don't want to think about the operating system. The operating system should be like a referee -- invisible and anonymous -- and that's exactly what XP does. It provides all the features I need in an environment that is completely familiar and easy to use.

There will always be people who claim that a losing technology is technically better than a winning technology (Betamax vs. VHS, HD DVD vs. Blu-ray, and so on) but just lost out because of inferior marketing, political clout or some other reason. They view themselves as the enlightened few vainly railing against the ignorant masses.

Meanwhile, the masses are getting their work done.

-- David Ramel


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Computers/Internet
KEYWORDS: gatesworshippers; vistasucks; windowssucks; xpsucks
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To: roamer_1
Can one still shut off xwin and boot directly to a prompt? Are file structures and directory structures what one would expect in *nix?

Apple overhauled the startup and configuration of BSD and added/combined daemons, but the VFS layer, networking stack, POSIX system calls, and high-level process abstraction layer (but not threads) are all based on BSD. X11 and open-source *NIX tools you're used to can be installed easily with Fink.

41 posted on 04/09/2008 2:21:33 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: dan1123
open-source *NIX tools you're used to can be installed easily with Fink.

Thank you.

42 posted on 04/09/2008 2:29:59 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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To: AppyPappy
If you really want to play Windows games on Linux, you can always get Cedenga ($15). It will play Battlefield 2 for you without any problems.
43 posted on 04/09/2008 2:35:06 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: Swordmaker
All you need is

C>_

Back then we didn't need any fancy graphical user interfaces. We used EDIT.COM and we liked it.

Yer all a bunch of spoiled wimps.

44 posted on 04/09/2008 2:46:47 PM PDT by Gideon7
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To: roamer_1
So Apple just basically built a GUI over the top of genuine BSD then?

Sort of. Apple used the Mach kernel and BSD user space but with a lot of its own changes, calling it XNU. While different than the BSD it's based on, it is the first BSD to be certified UNIX.

Can one still shut off xwin and boot directly to a prompt?

Apple doesn't use xwin normally, instead using its own GUI (xwin was too limiting at the time), but you can run it. I know you can boot into single-user mode with a command prompt.

Are file structures and directory structures what one would expect in *nix?

Mainly BSD-style, with a few differences.

45 posted on 04/09/2008 4:22:54 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Gideon7
Where are the punchcards?

Cheers!

46 posted on 04/09/2008 4:28:37 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; JosephW; ...

47 posted on 04/09/2008 4:49:53 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Swordmaker

You put Linux at the top? Then posted some terrorist picture in the Vista sample. Don’t tell me...they got to you, too?


48 posted on 04/09/2008 7:44:21 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Swordmaker
My Vista weakend!

And I mean weak. Over the weekend, I installed Windows Vista Home Basic (upgrade) on one of my computers with a Mach Speed MSM939 Mother Board and a 250 Gb hard drive and 256Mb ram just to see if it could be done and what kind of trouble it would be. Well, I finally got it going, but it wasn’t easy.

I first had trouble opening the Windows Vista box. It said to pull on the red tab. My room was a little dark and I didn’t see the info on lifting the plastic tape off the edge. Well, with the aid of a screwdriver for a pry-bar, I opened the damn plastic case and parts fell all over the room. I was able to paste together the Key Code sticker to read the Key Code.

It didn’t start off well for sure. I extracted the DVD from the mess and also found the skimpy manual with quick start platitudes. Practically no useable info.

Well, I had the hard drive on the sacrifice computer partitioned with a 40 Gb C: drive and partitions D:, E:, F:, and G:. I thought that I could boot from the Vista DVD and install it and install it on the C: drive. I wanted a clean install. So I formatted the C: drive to remove the Windows XP Pro operating system on it and proceeded to do the install.

The Vista DVD booted up fine and I typed in the
Key Code: XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-PQWKW

A screen came up and said that I had to have at least 512Mb ram. Turned off the computer and installed another DDR 256Mb of ram.

Booted up again with the Vista DVD. It now couldn’t see the hard drive. I booted with Windows 98 and used Norton’s GDISK to see the hard drive. It was gone. I had to turn off the computer completely. Power off for about 5 minutes. Booted again with Windows 98 and now I could see the hard drive with GDISK. All of the partitions were gone. So I did a WipeDisk from GDISK. I was then able to create a 40 Gb Primary partition and format it in Fat32.

Booted from the Vista DVD and I typed in the
Key Code: XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-PQWKW – again!

The new screen said that I could only install Vista Home from within Windows.

OK. Back to the Ghost restore and I restored a Windows XP Pro operating system on the C: drive.

Inserted the Vista DVD and I typed in the
Key Code: XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-PQWKW – again!

Another new screen said that I could only install Vista Home from within Windows XP Home and I needed Windows Vista Ultimate or something like that. I wasn’t seeing to clearly at the new screen.

OK. I installed Windows XP Home on the C: drive which took about an hour. Of course I got all the prompts to Authenticate it but I ignored them. Now I have Windows XP Home running and I think I am home free. No.

Inserted the Vista DVD and I typed in the
Key Code: XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-PQWKW – again!

The new screen said that I could only install Vista Home with a partition that was formatted with NTFS. I am thinking that maybe they could have told me all of these restriction in the first place.

I reformatted the C: drive and again installed Windows XP Home but this time I opted to convert the C: drive to the NTFS format.

I booted up Windows XP Home and started the install from there:
Inserted the Vista DVD and I typed in the
Key Code: XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-PQWKW – again!

It let me do a “Clean” install without any of the programs running on Windows XP Home. Finally I get the install to take. I now practically know the Key Code by heart.

This took 2 days. That was my weakend. Not weekend. Monday I wanted to try a connect to the Internet from my wireless system. I have the Airlink USB wireless adapter and installed the software from the CD that came with it. It looked OK, but it didn’t work. I finally went on the Internet with a GOOD computer and downloaded the Vista drivers for the USB adapter. Somewhere in here a screen came up and said the driver wouldn’t work until Service Pack 1 was installed. I already had SP1 and yes, it did take more than an hour to install and it did restart the computer numerous time. At least I got a successful installation of SP1.

Now the Airlink USB wireless adapter was installed and working. I got on the internet and was able to view my web page. There was quite a bit of activity on the flashing lights on the wireless adapter. Heaven only knows what kind of info was being transmitted to Microsoft while that was going on.

All this time there was an error message that there was “no sound device installed”. The sound hardware is on the motherboard so I thought I would install the motherboard drivers. Bad move. I put in the CD and did the install. Agreed to reboot after the installation and the computer hung. When Vista hangs – that’s it. Control-Alt-Delete does nothing. The only thing that works if the Reset button. It still wouldn’t boot up “normally” so I booted up in Safe Mode and uninstalled the motherboard drivers.

Now I could boot up again. So I went on the internet and looked for the Mach Speed Vista drivers for the motherboard. I attempted to download them. About half way through the 15Mb file, the computer hangs. Mouse arrow doesn’t move. No hard drive activity. The computer just sits there. I hit to power off switch.

Back to a GOOD computer and I downloaded the motherboard drivers and the audio drivers and put them on a Secure Digital card. I booted up the Vista computer is Save Mode and was able to copy the driver files over from the SD card. I did the install and finally I was able to boot “normally”. I had to reinstall the drivers from the “normal” mode and now the computer seems to work. It still tells me that my USB port could be faster if I install 2.0 but it doesn’t tell me where I can get it. Later.

Windows Vista Home (upgrade) is pretty but if you don’t have a few days to spend trying to do the install, I would suggest if you want Vista, just buying a computer with it already installed.

Hunting coyotes or groundsquirrels would have been a lot more fun.

As long as I have a couple of GOOD computers running I was able to get the drivers for the motherboard, the USB Wireless adapter, the 5 button IntellMouse, and audio system off the Internet. I have played around with it more and it is essentially Windows XP Pro with a face lift and a lot of pretty makeup. The sound from my speakers is very good. Setting up the Virtual memory location, Paths and how it displays a folder view is the same as XP put it takes a different route getting to where the settings can be made. It took quite a while to find out how to display the full path and the file name extensions when viewing a folder, but I finally found out how. I still haven't cracked how to display the status bar at the bottom of a folder view. I was able to use Ghost 2003 to write the complete image of the C: drive of Vista off to the E: partition. My old Ghost 2002 would not find a NTFS partition. I might just like Vista yet.... Maybe.

Good Hunting... from Varmint Al

My Computer Page: http://www.varmintal.com/acomp.htm

 

49 posted on 04/09/2008 7:55:29 PM PDT by Varmint Al
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To: Varmint Al
A screen came up and said that I had to have at least 512Mb ram. Turned off the computer and installed another DDR 256Mb of ram.

If you're only running 512 Mb RAM, I'd suggest you just stick with XP. The Vista minimum is 512, and I'd recommend a fresh clean install if you even try it.

50 posted on 04/09/2008 8:05:27 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: Gideon7; John Robinson
Gideon, I think you were making a black rectangle with a C>_ prompt... but in Safari on a Mac I get a large black square that is way too large for the screen... both vertically and horizontally... and now characters at all unless they are lost somewhere in the humungous black square. It appears that the < pre > command does something entirely unexpected with FR and Safari on a Mac.

If I cut and paste your table, I also get the huge black square.

Remove the < pre > and everything is OK... just no black table and no C prompts.

On Firefox, I get what you intended.

John, you need to look at this...

51 posted on 04/09/2008 8:10:58 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: All; Gideon7

Are any other Mac users getting something weird with Gideon’s post?


52 posted on 04/09/2008 8:13:47 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Golden Eagle
You put Linux at the top? Then posted some terrorist picture in the Vista sample. Don’t tell me...they got to you, too?

Posted as published...

53 posted on 04/09/2008 8:15:19 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Golden Eagle

Looks like its alphabetical... Linux is first ... comes before OSX, the Windows Vista, then Windows XP


54 posted on 04/09/2008 8:16:50 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Swordmaker

Yet it’s Mac OS that can run them all.


55 posted on 04/09/2008 8:22:21 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: AppyPappy
I do know there are very few games that natively run on a Mac. Using a Mac to run Windows software like games sounds foolish to me.

Here are some of the "few" games:

3D Hearts/Spades Deluxe
4x4 EVO 2
A Tale in the Desert III
Active Lancer
Activision Anthology
Age of Empires II: Gold
Age of Empires III
Age of Empires III: The WarChiefs
Age of Mythology
AGON
AirBurst Extreme
Airline Tycoon Deluxe
Alias Underground
Aliens vs. Predator 2
American McGee’s Alice
America’s Army
Ankh
Another War
Armado
Atari Arcade Classics
Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Baldur’s Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
Battlefield 1942 Deluxe Edition
Battlefield 1942: Secret Weapons of WWII
Battlefield 2142
Bejeweled & Alchemy
Big Bang Board Games
Big Bang Brain Games
Billy Frontier
Bionicle
Birdie Shoot
Black & White
Black & White: Creature Isle
BloodRayne
Board Game Trio
Bugdom 2
Burning Monkey Casino
Burning Monkey Mahjong Solitaire 2
Burning Monkey Solitaire 4
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty
Call of Duty: United Offensive
Disney/Pixar Cars: Mater-National [NEW]
Disney/Pixar Cars: Radiator Springs
Disney/Pixar Cars: The Video Game
Championship Manager 01-02
Championship Manager 4
Chessmaster 9000
Civilization III: Complete
Civilization IV
Civilization IV: Warlords
Clive Barker’s Undying
Close Combat: First to Fight
Cold War
Colin McRae Rally Mac
Command & Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars
Command & Conquer Generals
Command & Conquer Generals: Zero Hour
Commander: Europe at War
Commandos Battle Pack
Cosmic Encounter Online
Cro-Mag Rally
Crusader Kings
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
Dark Horizons: Lore Invasion
Darwinia
Deimos Rising
DEFCON
Delta Force: Black Hawk Down
Diablo II*
Disney’s Toontown Online
Dominions II: The Ascension Wars
Dominions 3: The Awakening
Doom 3
Doulber Gold
Dragon’s Lair 3D
Drop Point Alaska
DropTeam
Dungeon Siege
Enemy Engaged
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars [NEW]
Enigmo 2
Europa Universalis II
EVE Online
EverQuest
F/A-18: OIF
F1 Championship Edition
Fable: The Lost Chapters [NEW]
Fallout 2
The Feeble Files
Finding Nemo Games
Fly! II**
FlyBoys Squardron
Ford Racing 2
Freedom Force
Ghost Master
Ghost Recon: Game of the Year Edition
Giants: Citizen Kabuto**
GooBall
Gorky 17
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Halo: Combat Evolved
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Hearts of Iron
Hearts of Iron 2
Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday
Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday: Armageddon
Heroes of Might and Magic IV
Heroes of Might and Magic V
Homeworld 2
Hordes of Orcs
Icewind Dale**
The Incredibles
Imperial Glory
The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer
The Incredibles: When Danger Calls
Indiana Jones and the Emperor’s Tomb
Islands Mini-Golf
James Bond 007: Nightfire
The Journey to Wild Divine
Kelly Slater’s Pro Surfer
Kick Off 2002
Law & Order: Dead on the Money
Legion Arena
Legion Arena: Cult of Mithras
LEGO Star Wars
LEGO Star Wars II
Lineage
Links Championship Edition
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Madden NFL 08
Marble Blast Gold
Massive Assault
Master of Orion III
Max Payne
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault
Medal of Honor: Breakthrough
Medal of Honor: Spearhead
Mind Rover
Monster’s Inc. Games
The Movies
TheMovies: Stunts & Effects
MTX: Mototrax
Myst III: Exile*
Myst IV: Revelation
Myst V: End of Ages
Myth III: The Wolf Age
Nanosaur II: Hatchling
NASCAR 2003
Need For Speed: Carbon
Neon Tango
Neverwinter Nights
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide
Neverwinter Nights 2
NHL Eastside Hockey Manager 2007
No One Lives Forever 2
Oni*
Orbz
Otto Matic
Out of the Park Baseball 8
Pangea Arcade
Pirates of the Caribbean Online
Playhouse Disney Preschool Time Online
pop-pop
Prey
Project Nomads
Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords[NEW]
Quake III: Gold
Quake 4
Railroad Tycoon 3
Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield
Ratatouille: The Video Game
Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc
realMYST
Red Faction*
Redline
Reel Deal Casino: High Roller
Reel Deal Slots: Mystic Forest
Republic: The Revolution
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
RHEM 2: The Cave
Riddle of the Sphinx II: The Omega Stone
Rise of Nations: Gold Edition
Robin Hood
RollerCoaster Tycoon 3
RollerCoaster Tycoon 3: Soaked!
Sacrifice
Savage: The Battle for Newerth
Second Life
Shadowbane
Shadowbane: The Rise of Chaos
Sheep*
Shrek 2
Sim Theme Park*
SimCity 4
SimCity 4: Rush Hour
The Sims Castaway Stories
The Sims Life Stories
The Sims Pet Stories
The Sims 2
The Sims 2: Bon Voyage
The Sims 2: Nightlife
The Sims 2: Open for Business
The Sims 2: Pets
The Sims 2: Seasons
The Sims 2: University
The Sims 2 Family Fun Stuff
The Sims 2 Glamour Life Stuff
The Sims 2 Happy Holiday Stuff
The Sims
The Sims: Hot Date
The Sims: House Party
The Sims: Livin’ Large
The Sims: Makin’ Magic
The Sims: Superstar
The Sims: Unleashed
The Sims: Vacation
SketchFighter 4000 Alpha
Slots from Bally Gaming
Solace
Soldier of Fortune II: Double Helix
Space Colony
Spider-Man 2
The SpongeBob SquarePants Movie
SpyHunter
Star Trek: Elite Force II
Star Wars: Battlefront
Star Wars: Empire at War
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
StarCraft*
Starcraft: Brood War*
Stubbs the Zombie
Stronghold
Survivor
Sveerz Deluxe
ThinkTanks
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six 3: Athena Sword
Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Tomb Raider: Chronicles
Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness
Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 4
Total Immersion Racing
ToySight Gold
Tranquility
Tron 2.0
Tropico: Mucho Macho
Tropico 2: Pirate Cove
True Crime: Streets of LA
Unreal Tournament 2004
Vendetta Online
Victoria: An Empire Under the Sun
Victoria: Revolutions
Virtual Grand Prix 2
XIII
Wakeboarding Unleashed
WarBirds 2007
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Warrior Kings
WingNuts 2: Raina’s Revenge
Wipeout 2097**
World of Warcraft
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
World War II Online: Battleground Europe
Worms 3D
Worms Blast
X-Plane
X2: The Threat
X2: Wolverine’s Revenge
X3: Reunion
Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates
Zoo Tycoon
Zoo Tycoon 2

56 posted on 04/09/2008 8:29:56 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: AppyPappy
Upgrades are generally not for maintenance.

How many people had to upgrade 2 year-old PCs in order to run Vista? Contrast: an OS X upgrade generally makes your same Mac run faster.

Consoles are good but a year after you buy them, they are overtaken by the top graphics engines on a PC.

Graphics engines aren't everything. A few things are an advantage for the consoles. One, a console is a complete static system, and all games can be optimized for that specific hardware instead of having to work with various video cards, sound cards and CPUs. Imagine a PC game that will only work with a 512 MB nVidia 8800GTS and a 3 GHz Core 2 Duo with a 1333 MHz bus, and you're out of luck with any other configuration.

Second, in many cases the console is so advanced that in the beginning games can't take complete advantage of it. Games can actually get better over the years on the same hardware. Estimates right now are that no game uses 50% of the power of the PS3. The Nintendo 64 had the same situation.

Third, consoles except the original xBox aren't saddled with the x86 architecture. They have processors specifically designed or customized for gaming. Take the PS3 again, a 3.2 GHz custom PowerPC core plus seven SIMD units and bandwidths of 200 GB/s internal, 64 GB/s bus and 26 GB/s memory. You need dual channel DDR3-1600 to get that memory bandwidth on a PC right now, almost a year and a half after the PS3 was introduced. No reasonably-priced home PC is going to get that much gaming power for a while, although the graphics cards have surpassed what's in the PS3.

57 posted on 04/09/2008 9:06:07 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: dan1123

Thanks for everything. Nice video. Different from what I’m used to, but easily understandable.


58 posted on 04/09/2008 9:35:55 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Swordmaker
About two weeks ago I upgraded to Vista on my main development box and I really like it.

I'm a pretty devoted *nix guy and C/C++ programmer. And to be fair, I haven't messed around w/ OS X much recentely, and run pretty scaled-back versions of Linux for server-side stuff.

I really like Vista.

I might spin up a virtual machine and try Ubuntu...

59 posted on 04/09/2008 10:11:50 PM PDT by TiberiusClaudius
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To: antiRepublicrat
Mainly BSD-style, with a few differences.

Thanks for the info, antiRepublicrat. I guess I will be getting a mac to play with sometime toward late spring / early summer. I am loathe to learn yet another OS, but if it is *nix enough to be familiar, then it is not too bad.

Still, it will continue to be Linux for me. Why pay for the milk when you can get the cow for free (play on words intended)?

60 posted on 04/10/2008 12:20:40 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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