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Salvaging Caligula [Nemi Ships, Caligula, and Mussolini]
Time ^ | Feb. 4, 1929 | staff

Posted on 11/25/2005 4:40:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv

Nineteen centuries of foundered orgy looked up at the hydroairplane which last week waltzed high over Lake Nemi in the Alban hills back of Rome. And Giuseppe Cultrera, Etruscan scholar in the plane,* looked down from the vantage of his flying height through Nemi's waters and could see what none but groping divers theretofore had seen—the sunken Golden Barge whereon epileptic Emperor Caligula, great-grandson of Augustus, and his minions held their carouses.

(Excerpt) Read more at time-proxy.yaga.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: ancientnavigation; archaeology; caligula; fucinelake; godsgravesglyphs; history; italy; lagodifucino; lakenemi; lionelcasson; mussolini; naumachia; nemiships; romanempire; romans
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Caligulas Floating Palaces

1 posted on 11/25/2005 4:40:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; asp1; ...
Thanks to FastCoyote for pointing out these articles.

Lionel Casson states (in one or more of his books) that the largest Roman vessels were the grain haulers, with a capacity of about 100 tons. This statement has been superseded by more recent information (I guess that's the explanation). Gaius, better known as Caligula, had ten or so columns transported from an Egyptian quarry to Rome. Each of them weighed about 200 tons. Obviously they went by water. None of these ships has been found on the bottom, alas (yet).

I highly recommend Casson's books BTW.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
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2 posted on 11/25/2005 4:44:29 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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To: SunkenCiv

!


3 posted on 11/25/2005 4:47:46 PM PST by bitt ( Dems: summer soldiers, sunshine patriots, and armchair Napoleons.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Lionel Casson was my professor for intro classics course during undergrad days at NYU. Best prof I EVER had.


4 posted on 11/25/2005 4:48:18 PM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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Rome - Engineering and Industry: Nemi Ships
togliard
The Romans produced suction force pumps in all types for all sea and land necessities. One of the archeological discoveries which most contributed to on/ knowledge of Roman metallurgy was the recovery of two ships of lake Nemi... These ships contained lead pipe (in the ship plumbing system), valves, pieces of equipment including a rotating table on ball bearings and several metallic objects made from various alloys of iron, copper and bronze which vary according to their intended use. The lead pipe conforms to the dimensions and norms set in Frontinus' text... The inscriptions on the lead pipe found on the Nemi ships have done more to date the ships than the masonry trademarks... But the precise dating of the Nemi Ships based on the name of Caligula (37 to 41 A.D.) has been established by the for fstulae found three inside the first ship and the fourth nearby with their seal G. CAESARIS AVG GERMANIC all stamped with the same die (evidenced by the imperfect impression of the C on the various pieces of pipe)... The valve found on board is according to the standards a vicenaria in perfect working condition... The rotating platform found on the Nemi ship establishes that the Romans were acquainted with and used ball-bearings. Bronze bearings fixed in place by pins were positioned around the circumference of the platform at regular intervals to permit the rotary movement scythe load.

5 posted on 11/25/2005 4:50:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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To: bitt

)


6 posted on 11/25/2005 4:51:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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To: Pharmboy

I'm a little jealous now.


7 posted on 11/25/2005 4:51:31 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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To: SunkenCiv

When he explained the Greek chorus, he would sing and dance their parts as they would as they would perform the plays of Euripides, Sophocles, etc. He was truly amazing...


8 posted on 11/25/2005 4:56:57 PM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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Caligula's Nemi Ships
by Per Åkesson
The Lake Nemi ships were two outsize pleasure barges built on the orders of the Roman emperor Caligula. They were not intended for use on the sea, but were built to use on the lake. Even so, they are built to the highest degree possible for Roman shipwrights. The barges were 70 m (200 ft) long and 18 m (60 ft) wide. They were built using the efficient mortise and tenon fastenings, with copper nails and lead sheathing along the hull. The barges were filled with marble and statues... The main interest in the Lake Nemi ships is that they prove that the Romans were capable of building huge ships, as the grain carriers were reputed to be. Before the excavation of these barges, scholars had often ridiculed the idea that the Romans had that degree of sophistication needed to build a truly large ship.
Caligula's Floating Palaces
Libitina

(quoting from The History Channel)
It took the obsession of Mussolini with all things Roman to finally prise the two huge wrecks from the depths of Lake Nemi near Rome. Using an ancient Roman waterway, he drained the lake and rescued the ships, an accomplishment captured on film that we access to illustrate this astounding story. Sophisticated ancient technology was discovered in the boats that transformed the understanding of Roman engineering overnight--the Nemi ships were a breathtaking find. Yet by 1944, the adventure had turned sour and the retreating German Army torched the boats. We reveal the mysteries of the Nemi Ships and the ancient technology that made them possible.

9 posted on 11/25/2005 4:59:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Bump


10 posted on 11/25/2005 7:40:52 PM PST by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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To: Dustbunny

The reason this stuff is so fascinating is that you wonder if they didn't have ships well capable of crossing the atlantic.


11 posted on 11/26/2005 8:55:50 AM PST by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote

I have frequently wondered that myself. I think they were far more advanced than the current generations give them credit for.


12 posted on 11/26/2005 4:03:16 PM PST by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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(emphasis added)
A navis lapidaria at K?z?lburun, Turkey
The Roman emperor Augustus claimed to have found Rome a city of brick and left it a city of marble (Suet. Aug. 28). Indeed, the remains of more than a dozen stone cargoes in the shallow waters off Italy, France, and Spain attest to the Roman appetite for specialty stones – white marble from Greece and Asia Minor; yellow marble from Numidia; red and gray granite from Egypt. The vast majority of these cargoes, however, have not been treated as coherent archaeological sites; instead they are only superficially explored, their stones partly or wholly salvaged.

As a result, archaeologists know regrettably little about the construction and lading of ancient stone carriers, which must represent some of the most sophisticated technological achievements of the ancient world. It was precisely such ships that brought 16 enormous monolithic granite columns, each nearly 40 feet tall, from Alexandria to Rome for the façade of Hadrian's Pantheon. A century earlier, the emperor Caligula arranged for the transport to Rome of a massive 320-ton obelisk . The historian Pliny, upon viewing the ship that delivered the obelisk, described it as "the most amazing vessel that had ever been seen on the sea (NH 36.70)."

13 posted on 11/28/2005 7:33:28 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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To: FastCoyote; Dustbunny

Romans In Rio?
Science Frontiers ONLINE
No. 28: Jul-Aug 1983
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf028/sf028p01.htm

In 1976, diver Jose Roberto Texeira salvaged two intact amphorae from the bottom of Guanabara Bay, 15 kilometers from Rio de Janeiro. Six years later, archeologist Robert Marx found thousands of pottery fragments in the same locality, including 200 necks from amphorae.

Amphorae are tall storage vessels that were used widely throughout ancient Europe. These particular amphorae are of Roman manufacture, circa the second century B.C. Much controversy erupted around the finds because Spain and Portugal both claim to have discovered Brazil around 1500 A.D. Roman artifacts were distinctly unwelcome. More objectively, the thought of an ancient Roman crossing of the Atlantic is not so farfetched. Roman wrecks have been discovered in the Azores; and the shortest way across the Atlantic is from Africa to Brazil -- only 18 days using modern sailing vessels.

(Sheckley, Robert; "Romans in Rio," Omni, 5:43, June 1983.)


14 posted on 11/28/2005 7:36:41 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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Romans in Brazil During the Second or Third Century?
Mysterious Earth | June 20, 2003 | "Michael"
Posted on 10/17/2004 7:47:13 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1248340/posts


15 posted on 11/28/2005 7:38:24 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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To: SunkenCiv

A 320-ton obelisk would require a ship of at least 400 tons displacement or 363 cubic meters displaced water. If you figure the ship was 60 meters long and drew 1.5 meters of depth you get a beam of 4 meters, so these rough dimensions aren't too bad. But I'm probably off a fair bit in only assigning the ship an empty weight of 80 tons, could be double or triple that because of balast, freeboard, decking, lead plate, etc.

Nevertheless, A Nemi ship would have been in that size range, so they were well capable of atlantic crossing.


16 posted on 11/28/2005 8:08:30 PM PST by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote

I wholeheartedly agree. Romans used Indian elephants (from India, obviously ;') in their games, and they got them there aboard ship. A single Roman galley was bigger than the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria combined.


17 posted on 11/29/2005 8:39:42 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Caligula and the lead pipe. I saw that it read CCAESARISAVGGERMANICI(US) Where did you get the information on the same dies that were cut into the pipes? I am very interested in inscriptions of Caligula (Non numismatic) Great post.

Thanks,

Joe Geranio


18 posted on 04/23/2006 5:15:48 PM PDT by Joe Geranio
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To: Joe Geranio

http://www.novanet.it/com/personale/togliard/nemi/ship_e.htm


19 posted on 04/23/2006 7:38:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Claudius' Naumachia on Fucine Lake (Those About To Die, chap III)
Those About To Die (via Kurt Saxon) | 1950s (I believe) | Daniel P. Mannix
Posted on 11/24/2005 10:45:06 AM EST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1527955/posts


20 posted on 09/30/2006 7:55:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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