Posted on 10/28/2004 6:43:59 PM PDT by Sonar5
Hi all,
I need some help and I am fuming about this. Today an incident happened at my son's school that concerns me greatly.
He is in 4th Grade and is age nine. One of his friends brought a small pocket knife to school and allegedly showed it to my son and others at their lunch table. Apparently he did not open the blade, and quickly put it away. No one was threatened. They are all friends in scouts, church, or sports.
One of the other children after lunch, not mine, told a teacher about it. I get a phone call at about 1:15 stating my son was involved in an incident at school. I ask first is he ok, the administrator says yes.
She then explains that my son and others failed to tell an adult or teacher they saw someone else with a knife at school and that she questioned my son. I asked if he was threatened, and she replied no.
She stated the student who brought it would probably be expelled. I thought that was the end of it, since my son didn't bring the knife, no one was threatened, and my son, nor anyone else held it, nor was the blade even shown.
First off, these are 9 year olds. And I'm ok with the kid that told, and whatever happens to the kid that brought it happens. My son didn't feel it was serious.
My concern is the treatment of my son as having done something wrong.
My son got home about 3:40 or so, and I immediately asked him what happened, who was involved, was he threatened, did he or anyone else hold it, etc....
He then told me he was interrogated without my knowledge inside a closed room with only him and the administrator and talked to about what he did wrong by not telling an adult, asked questions, and the administrator was writing down the responses. Two other children who did not say anything were also subjected to this interrogation, seperately.
He and the two others were then pulled out of class before recess and during recess were taken to the office where they, without my knowledge were coerced into writing false statements stating they made bad choices by not telling an adult, and one other example of making a bad choice.
All three were told if they did not bring the form signed by a parent tomorrow, they would miss recess.
So, now my son is made out to have done something wrong. By the way, the administrator signed the form at the top.
My son was never advised of his rights to call us, and have us present, was never advised why he had to write the form, and we were never notified of the form until our son arrived home.
My son is in Scouting and considers a knife a tool, and knows the difference between showing something and getting threatened. He has also been trained in the proper use of a knife, a safety circle, etc... He knew what the student did was wrong, and he knew not to bring those types of items to school.
So what would you do.
We are not signing the form, and I talked to him about his rights, and the fact he did nothing wrong, the student who told did nothing wrong, the only one who did something wrong was the student who brought it, and the way he was treated.
I then went into explaining his rights to him, and about no longer answering any questions without us present.
So put yourself in my shoes, and ask what you would do. I felt the initial incident was no big deal, neither did my son at first. Now I feel my son and we as parents were violated in our rights, as well as our sons.
BTW - I tried calling the administrator who called earlier, and tried to tell her we were not returning the form, and we feel he shouldn't have to miss recess, and be punished, and she replied she didn't like my tone, and then stated the conversation is over, and hung up on me. Nice, huh?
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards, Sonar5
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Please teach your son to obey the rules and if he is caught not ratting on a friend to take it as a part of life.
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That's a cold way of stating it but I agree. It is a good thing to learn that loyalty has it's price. This could be the incident that cements the friendship of the two young men, or teaches Sonar's son to be cautious where he places his.
Cold...but I like it.
Your post is all bafflecrap about bullies, democrats and probably the devil himself, but that didn't happen here. The kid got talked to, was shown that the lesson is he should have reported it, and sent home with a note. No fascism, no abuse, no lawyers, no foul.
With all the knee jerk reactions on this thread, I am not surprised you and others have found the schools in your life hard to get along with. But perhaps it is you who are completely unreasonable.
A love tap on the fanny of a good friend is hardly "a boy striking a girl". However, one should be aware of time/place appropriateness.
No they should have mailed the gun. The store manager for no good reason turned away business.
So you condone girl being allowed to kick boys in the groin for no reason, simply because they can get away with it.
Hi,
But my son was not threatened and knows the difference.
I mainly feel I should have been called before questioning, and given the opportunity to be there, in what was not a minor violation by the school, but a major one in their opinion.
Why were the others not subjected to this the same as mine was. Ar ethey only gathering this form, and threatening repercussions so they can use it against the child at an expeulsion hearing? If so, should they have a duty to tell us that.
Are they going to turn the form over to the police, and then have them use it to file charges? If so, should they have a duty to tell us that?
That form could indicate us a switnesses to the stetments for all we know.
I am also concerned that this form will be a part of his record, and him being wrongly associated as if he brought the knife to school himself.
Ohh... he's the boy who didn't turn in the knife boy, better watch him, and maybe he no longer gets any benefit of the doubt for a minor infraction he may commit in the future, but do to this form being in his file, he is labelled as a non-complier.
When this admin person knew a knife was invloved, does the state mandate the police are called, child welfare?
Great let them question my son, I have no problem with that. But you know what, this person acted as the police, and she is not.
Had it been the police, they by law would have been required to either notify me, or ask my son if he wants me to be notified before questioning him.
My son stated he was scared of going into the office, and I don't think he did anything wrong.
And yes, I don't consider a pocket knife dangerous, it is the person who uses the pocket knife and threatens that is dangerous. That is not the case in this matter.
And no one else handled the knife except the kid who brought it.
This kid will most likely be expelled fo rthis, and now because of another students stupidity, my child may be associated with it, and being known as a kid that makes bad choices, and oh look we have proof you make bad choices, you signed this form stating you do.
He will be labelled, and isn't that worse than what he deserves for simply sitting at a lunch table trying to eat his lunch?
And what is his choice now, either sign this saying you make bad choices, and we'll file it, or reap punishment for not signing it.
Why is that right for them to do that?
Someone point to me the law that says every witness must come forward and report a minor infraction. (Sheesh, he was showing off to his frineds a pocket knife folks.)
What is next.
Rule is no gum chewing in class.
My son notices another boy chewing gum and doesn't tell on him, so he is punished.
Oh I see this is not your first time, you have a record of not telling and making bad choices, NO SOUP FOR YOU...
Listen, to me this is a serious issue, soup comment aside, but I don't want my son punished for viewing something he had no control over. He laready gave a statement, and said yes, he saw a knife. Big deal. They got the kid, they got the knife, punish him, not the others who saw it.
And yes, I see this as an unjust punishment if a parent doesn't sign the form stating he made a bad choice.
HE DID NOT MAKE A BAD CHOICE.
A bad choice would be did he have a knife, and my son says NO. that is a bad choice. It should have ended when he answered yes, and he shoudl have beens ent back to class, issue over for him.
Instead you have a scared 9 year old, who is questioned at length an dtold he did something wrong.
I'm sorry, but unless we want germany in the lat e30's and 40's, this is not the environment I want my son in.
I am an optimist, so maybe this will be resolved in the morning, but what if it isn't. What if they choose to punish him by keeping him out of recess?
It's true that I'm not an attorney, but your mention of interrogation by police with lack of even suspicion did catch my interest. ...helped put down some corruption and other things in the past just to do a good deed.
Do you believe that Sonar5 should sign that administrative form for a California school district without knowing more about the form or what Sonar5 is being told to agree with?
A friend of mine received exceptional assistance from the ACLJ. Without that help, California might have taken her children for no substantially greater reason than vanity about what they perceived to be power in their chosen bureaucratic (and Democrat supported) occupations.
I think from reading some of the comments, it has been a while since some of you had children in school. Schools have become a mine field for officials, teachers, parents and children. It is sad but true, everyone is so CYA and PC it makes for almost an adverse relationship at times.
When my oldest (now 23) started school, I tried to deal with the school as my mother had, let them make and enforce the rules and teach my children to respect and follow them.
I even signed a form allowing them to spank my daughter if they deemed necessary.
I soon realized that common sense does not exist in most school officials and they are extremely unfair about dealing with children, using the children against each other and over reacting to normal childhood behavior.
I made a decision to no longer sign the corporal punishment form, and made it plain to the school officials that if an incident involved a child of mine- I needed to be contacted and present before any questioning would take place. I know to some of you it sounds bizarre that a parent would require this for a simple visit to the office- but trust me
it is better safe than sorry when dealing with the school officials.
It is truly sad that it has come to this, I don't know what can be done to make it better on every one. I also would like to add that I have been rarely called to school, I think only 4 or 5 times with 3 children in school over the last 15+ years. When I am called I listen to the entire story from the officials, then I speak to my child in private and get their side of the story. I then decide what I think about the situation, and what I will and won't go along with. I have sided with the officials on more than one occasion, but they know I will let them know if I don't agree. Sometimes we agree to disagree and the school does what they decide and I explain to the child I feel it is wrong and why.
At least in our school system, if the officials know you will call BS on them if they get "too out there" then you will get less BS to begin with. The officials also know I will back them up when my children are in the wrong, I think that is the key to getting along without letting them take advantage.
Now IMO this is absurd and where I would get upset. It seems administrators are so afraid of the what ifs that they can't use common sense any more. The kid just needs paddled and his knife taken away until the end of the year. Instead he'll probably be tested , counseled and jailed (JV). I still say your son made his decision and needs to now accept the consequences (missed recess). I thought at first that he did tell a teacher but I probably wouldn't have either.
Consider this. When I was a kid, if I got in trouble at school I was in big trouble at home. You all sound like you are raising kids who, when they get in trouble at school, get their parents to fight for them and get them out of it.
Is that wise?
All they want is for your son to know, in no uncertain terms, that knives in school are against the rules. And that if they see one, they should report it. That is the rule. Why do you want to interfere with that lesson and confuse the kid?
HMM. It has been awhile but I refused to allow corporal punishment for one of my sons for something outrageous he did. The principal called and asked me if he could give him 3 pops. I told him no and he asked me why. I replied that all he was going to do was make him mad and I was on my way up there because I wanted to do it myself. When I got there the principal assured me that, that was ok and that they had worked things out:')
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I am an optimist, so maybe this will be resolved in the morning, but what if it isn't. What if they choose to punish him by keeping him out of recess?
>>
You get through it and you get over it. If you believe your son did the right thing, let him know but also let him know that being right is not always the same as obeying the rules.
Kids are supposed to be scared of going to the office.
I don't want my son punished for viewing something he had no control over.
This is important. In the future, do you want your kid to be ~wary~ or ~complacent~ about being in the presence of kids that are doing something wrong?
No, it is not wise at all. You are very unlikely to win a pissing contest with the school board unless you belong to some protected status group. However, Political Correctness, Zero Tolerance policies, and Bureaucratic Paranoia have created an environment where trivial, harmless and benign activities or statements can result in serious consequence.
If the superintendent won't listen, go to the school board. The main issue here is not the written statement so much as the fact that you were left out of the loop until afterward.
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