Posted on 10/02/2004 3:48:27 PM PDT by Quix
QX NOTE: Since mentioning the below in a very sparse thread, a well known FREEPER has reported a similar dream. Another FREEPER, who probably knows more than many of the rest of us put togehter, said it was . . . my words . . . compatible with other . . . data.
If you FREEPMAIL them, please let me know if I can post them anonymously on this thread. Blessings, QX
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The AP List
October 2, 2004
Meri Burlingame: Moderator
Even as many had dreams indicating in July and August that September would be a month of storms, others have had dreams saying that October would be a month of terrorism. May we be found standing in the breach as the Lord would direct us.
Meri
[QX NOTE: Meri is a long term, close friend and Sister in The Lord].
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Tracey DesLauriers
September 4. 2004 5:03am.........had this dream three times...
I am standing outside, and approximately about 20 feet away from me, I see what looks like a big globe of the world.
As I begin to walk towards it, I am then lifted up far above this globe, and can now look down , and see the whole universe.
As I look far over towards the left, I see a darkening in the sky. In a blink of an eye, it strikes me that it has the resemblance of New York…the stock exchange buildings and business area. I then become aware, that as this situation is occurring, that in other parts of the world, there seem to be simultaneous attacks.
Although, I am not certain, of the exact places these attacks are also occurring, I do notice, that oil refineries, are being blown up, and I notice there seems to be those of Arabic descent as well as what appears to be Iraq, is now once again, under heavy attack, with air attacks, and ground forces, attacking just as they did in the beginning of the war…many lives are lost.
As this takes place, I look to my right, and see more destruction, and terror and death.
As I awoke, I was in tears, and kept hearing "Oct will be a significant month, Winds Of Change…Watch and Pray"
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Meri Burlingame
AP List Moderator
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WOW! WHAT A HUGE EXAMPLE OF WHOLESALE OUT OF CONTEXT and out of logic posting! Impressively off the goof-ball cliff! But, hey, when the evidence on the other side from your position is so overwhelming both in Scripture and in logic, I guess one does one's feeble best. It just boggles my mind that you'd even find a way to remotely connect that Scripture with the issue at hand! Amazing.
It boggles my mind that you sleep at nights with such . . . mental leaps being your custom. Oh, that's right, defending your tidy little boxed construction on reality helps you sleep . . . sort of.
The fact remains, that taking the Bible at face value leaves one with the inescapable [well, except for people hell-bent to be illogical and to wholesale ignore abundant evidence otherwise] conclusion that God intends for Holy Spirit to operate as demonstrated in THE MANUAL FOR THE CHURCH--THE NEW TESTAMENT.
There's not a single Scripture even hinting otherwise except for those victimized by doctrines of demons such that they shoehorn into verses vague, illogical leaps of thought to justify their unBiblical stances.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, So, believers in the early NT times needed miracles because the letters of the disciples were not broadly distributed yet? Or because the Old Testament was not sufficient? Balderdash. What illogical hogwash!
Man has not changed. Sin has not changed. Satan has not changed. Man's blindness has obviously not changed.
Modern man is not any less in desperated need to see God manifested through the power of His Spirit than was man of the first century era. Any thought otherwise is showing wholesale ignorance of man and wholesale ignorance of the spiritual warfare involved.
It's also wholesale ignorance of God's strategies and ways in reaching the lost and waging spiritual warfare in His ways on His terms.
BTW, I'm not REALLY interested in vanquishing YOU.
Just the idiotic notions the demonic forces have plagued your mind with.
I admire your persistence and pluck in a way.
It's certainly easy to care for you as someone made in God's image seeking to walk a Christian life--I think, I hope.
I'm not at all thrilled or impressed at your treatment of the DREAMS AND VISIONS thread.
3. 2 Corinthians 12:12 (Niv) The things that mark an apostle—signs, wonders and miracles—were done among you with great perseverance,
I'm not quite sure what the author meant to prove with the particular commentary that he put with that scripture. Suffice it to say that this verse associates miracles with apostles. Bear in mind that it is difficult to put up an argument when your opponent has put up a straw man for you. I'm not sure I would use this scripture when arguing against modern day gifts, but since it's been presented I see nothing wrong with it along those lines.
4. Ephesians 2:20 [The church] having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone.
Another scripture I would not use to argue Pentecostalism.
5. Revelation 22:18-19
Yet another scripture I would not use to argue with you. This is why I wanted YOU to respond to what I said. Because now I am being forced to respond to something you said in response to something I didn't say. But I would like to address something that came up in the gentlemans writing. The author tells a story of a prophecy one of his family members recieved, then he had this to say ...
I do not put this prophetic word on a par with the eternal logos of God, of course, but affirm that the simple little prophecy was one hundred percent accurate and a remarkable assurance to Debbie.
So is he saying that some words of God are not as much words of God as the written word ? God places more emphasis on the written than the spoken ? No. If there are such things as modern prophecy (which there isn't) then I submit that they must necessarily be on an equal footing with the written scripture.
Answer 2: Prophecy Complements Scripture
2 Tim 3:16-17 says that scripture doesn't NEED to be complemented.
Answer 3: Historical Evidence Exists for Miraculous Gifts
Since this was a simple assertion I will answer it in kind: No it doesn't.
Answer 4: Proper Use Invalidates Misuse
That's quite a strange argument, and it is backwards from what I'm used to seeing: "Misuse does not invalidate proper use". If that's what is meant, then I will have to agree because I have used that principle in other arguments. The thing is, the bible tells us what is the mark of a false prophet. It is if what he says doesn't come true. If you know of a prophet with a 100% success rate, let me know. I'm told that a 30-35% success rate is considered phenomenal in today's world. I call that a false prophet, and so does the bible.
Seeing as how I have destroyed your argument, I supposed now you are going to yell at me to quite hijacking "your" thread. Don't worry, I don't plan on posting here again unless someone puts up another argument for me to counter.
I wondered when you would mentioned David Wilkerson. He has mentioned seeing visions about what will happen to NYC.
Hey, I was waiting for Part II, too. 8~)
Here's a link to the great and glorious Westminster Larger Catechism --
http://www.reformed.org/documents/larger1.html
And from that link...
"Question 31: With whom was the covenant of grace made?
Answer: The covenant of grace was made with Christ as the second Adam, and in him with all the elect as his seed.
Question 32: How is the grace of God manifested in the second covenant?
Answer: The grace of God is manifested in the second covenant, in that he freely provides and offers to sinners a Mediator, and life and salvation by him; and requiring faith as the condition to interest them in him, promises and gives his Holy Spirit to all his elect, to work in them that faith, with all other saving graces; and to enable them unto all holy obedience, as the evidence of the truth of their faith and thankfulness to God, and as the way which he has appointed them to salvation.
Question 33: Was the covenant of grace always administered after one and the same manner?
Answer: The covenant of grace was not always administered after the same manner, but the administrations of it under the Old Testament were different from those under the New.
Question 34: How was the covenant of grace administered under the Old Testament?
Answer: The covenant of grace was administered under the Old Testament, by promises, prophecies, sacrifices, circumcision, the passover, and other types and ordinances, which did all foresignify Christ then to come, and were for that time sufficient to build up the elect in faith in the promised Messiah, by whom they then had full remission of sin, and eternal salvation.
Question 35: How is the covenant of grace administered under the New Testament?
Answer: Under the New Testament, when Christ the substance was exhibited, the same covenant of grace was and still is to be administered in the preaching of the Word, and the administration of the sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper; in which grace and salvation are held forth in more fulness, evidence, and efficacy, to all nations..."
There's no need nor instruction to scare ourselves with anything of this world. He draws us to Him and gives to us in Scripture complete protection beneath the shadow of His wings.
You are the ones talking about scaring!
We are to have confidence IN THE LORD regardless of whether we are on the way to the guillotine or a vacation in Hawaii! We are to REJOICE IN THE LORD ALWAYS!
You still have refused to deal with the very significant Scriptural and logical points destroying any validity to Cessationism.
The confession you posted has some nice points. Many of them true. Some omissions, not true.
And, they are merely a statement of man's constructions on the realities concerned. Clearly, the omission is a doctrine of man, or worse.
Thanks.
Yes, David has come a long ways, through many dangers, toils and snares.* I think his prophetic sense has been refined significantly along with his wisdom and humility in The Lord.
Am I remembering right--didn't he predict something very clearly outlining 9/11 weeks, if not months beforehand?
Thanks for your kind response on the topic of the thread!
If that posting convinced you that you'd destroyed ANY of the MANY points which destroyed the logic and highlighted the UNBiblicalness of Cessationism . . .
I'm amazed that you manage to . . .
read a Scripture plainly and straightforwardly from the beginning of a paragraph to the end. I'd think it would become all a confusing, convoluted jumble for you--similar to your 'logic' about cessationism and the opposite--that is, the true Biblical stance on the issues.
I notice that once again you again generalize about my unbiblicalness but fail to respond to even one of the points. I can see further discussion is unfruitful, as you are determined not to let minor things like the bible and proper reasoning get in your way.
HO HO HO HO HO HO!
Again, your mirror seems to have been shattered!
You never dealt with any of my points that I made against Cecessationism BEFORE I posted the book chapter. You never dealt with any of the points in the book chapter and especially not with the slightest sound logic nor the slightest Biblical response. And you never dealt with any of MY points in my commentaries within the book chapter posting.
And yet you have the blind audacity to accuse me of failing to be Biblical or logical. Fascinating.
Your psychology is even more fascinatiing than what passes for your theology.
Oh, before you go,
PLEASE alert me when you start a thread.
It may be that the most loving thing I could do for you at that time would be to give you a vivid mirror learning experience by hijacking it to the topic of DREAMS AND VISIONS.
Then again, I'm not convinced that there's a will to learn or a great deal of learning capacity in Biblical areas of truth. Seems to me that there's a lot of external demonic doctrines inputs from outside you that effectively neutralize what natural capacities you had to learn otherwise.
Perhaps busy-ness will slacken sometime in the next week or so and I or someone will put the points proving cessationism is UNBiblical nonsense on the left column and the even remotely tolerable responses to each point ont he right. I suspect that there will be many points proving cessationism loglically bankrupt and UNBiblical which will have not only no good response, but no response at all.
It's OK. I think maybe DAVEY was right. You run like rabbits when solid Scripture comes out revealing the silliness of the cessationists 'logic.' We all have to make our accomodations to The Truth.
BTW, where's the 2nd installment you promised? Perhaps you haven't had time, yet. No problem.
I'm hopeful that in due course you will want to insure that your YES IS YES and your nay, nay--being the sound student and follower of The Bible that you are. So, probably your 2nd installment will be along sooner than later.
I do hope that IF YOU DARE
ever again to steal, hijack a thread
that you either
A) quickly think better of it and bow out after a quick apology
or
B) avoid being a hit-and-run-driver and stay around to face the music that may eventually reach your ears and/or eyes.
But then, perhaps it's some of my reaping from teen sowing.
My dream was while I was awake - before 9-11 and happened in Philadelphia. We lived there until mid 200). We were downtown that spring driving by the Ben Franklin bridge and I "saw" a plane flying into it. I turned to my husband and said "what would you do/think if a jumbo jet crashed into the bridge right now?"
WOW!
Can you share hubby's response?
Do you still have a sense of that possibly looming; probably looming or definitely looming or not at all?
That should say "mid 2001". We left for CA that summer.
And I'll ask hubby if he remembers what he said.... I'm pretty sure he remembers the conversation because it (obviously) has come up since.
It was more of a case of "seeing" this giant plane smash into the bridge. I don't think I felt any kind of '... urgency about it. Just... a strangeness that I would picture that.
I *THINK* I understand.
My version of that sort of experience tends to be
VERY short blips--kind of like a visual of
'the still small voice of Our Lord's Spirit.'
Subtle. On the 'sensitive emulsion sheet of my mind' as the book ON THE LOOSE's author once described mental photographs of nature.
But in my case, not the crystal clear experience some have of looking in broad daylight at a scene one minute in perfect visual clarity and then the next instant, the scene has miraculously changed to just as clear a vision of that scene very altered as in your case or another scene as though the other scene were transported in, lock stock and barrel or one was transported somewhere else.
That's not my experience. I just have very short blips of images which are very subtle, mostly fuzzy and indistinct but sort of offer a brief outline, as it were of a visual image.
Sometimes the spiritual sense that goes with such a scene is intense and sometimes it's virtually nonexistent.
Thanks for your kind reply.
#684.
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