Skip to comments.God vs. Satan
Posted on 01/30/2022 7:24:12 AM PST by Enlightened1
I don't care about wealth, fame, or political power. I just want to free people from the grasp of the satanic system and build a world, even if it is only digital for now, where that is possible.
The satanic system wants us all stuck in fear, hopeless, and dead. It's all of us vs the Satanic literal demons in power. We have to get people to realize this fact. They want us infighting with one another instead of focusing on THEM. Look at the unity of the Canadian Truckers. THAT is what THEY fear. Unity. No more brother wars! We are in this together.
On his "about" on Gab it says the following,
"Saved servant soldier of Jesus Christ the King of Kings. Husband, Father, and the CEO of @gab. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1:"
Please join his free speech site if you have not. It's very fast website since he upgraded his Servers.
Perhaps someone could explain why God allows Satan to exist. Why would he allow Satan to corrupt and ruin mankind who He loves and created?
Yes God could easily destroy Satan. So why does God allow Satan to exist?
We are not puppets and have free will. Satan is our Tester.
In other words, we are being tested.
Gab and FR, my go to sites😁👍
It kind of goes along with "Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?" and "Why does God allow good things to happen to bad people?"
I've never heard a completely satisfactory answer but the closest anyone has come is this: Without evil, we wouldn't know what good is (and vice-versa). Just as: without darkness, we wouldn't know what light is. Without sound, we wouldn't know what silence is. Without heat, we wouldn't know what cold is. And on and on.
I don't know that there is an answer that will satisfy us on this side of Heaven but the important thing to focus our thoughts on is that to one degree or another we are able to play a part in how those things affect and effect our lives.
To Torba's point, that is a tall ask.
We can't even come to agreement on things such as the rapture. Some preach a pre-tribulation rapture and can quote chapter and verse to prove their stance. Others preach a mid-trib rapture and can quote chapter and verse to prove their point. Others preach a post-trib rapture and others preach no rapture at all and can quote chapter and verse.
And each shouts, "Heretic!", at the other.
And don't even get me started on the topic of speaking in tongues.
It's a tall ask but I appreciate where Torba's coming from.
I’m glad Andrew has gotten wise with discernment and realized the discord among brethren and even like Conservatives was counter-productive. No time for bickering when we’re gearing up for spiritual warfare before mid-terms and on to ‘24.
Calling out false hype and wolves in the body of Christ and in the Conservative movement is a good thing - but you really have to be 100% sure to do it publicly.
True. But what ultimately happens to a creature that God created and loves, who through his other imperfections and weakness succumbs to the blandishments of Satan in the worst ways imaginable. Christian theology contends that an all just God, despite his love for his creation condemns that creature to everlasting damnation and torment. Begs the question why would he create such a creature in the first place? Knowing the outcome why allow it to happen? Its been said that God has the capacity for forgiveness and all things are possible. Are we to assume that Hitler, Stalin and Mao being imperfect God created creatures who performed horrendous atrocities foreknown by God are forgiven?
No. They had/We have free will. Repentance (choosing to turn from) is an act of the heart.
And don’t get caught by the false logic that because something is foreknown and therefore predestined that there is lack of choice. Hitler rejected Christ’s atonement. His choice. God is a Just God as well as Merciful. Accept His perfect substitution of Jesus’ death and resurrection for your sins or use your own remedy for justification of your sins - which will fall short. And thus be rewarded with the rightful sentence.
Pride is ultimately what separates us from God - we want to be mini-Gods (as did Lucifer) and thus we reject His perfect redemption and propitiation for our sins. Our choice. Not the loving God’s choice. He stays true to his Just and Holy self (nature - who He is).
Still it does not answer the question. If you knew that a creature you created would cause immense suffering and harm and that creature ultimately would suffer eternal damnation and torment, why create such a creature in the first place?
Rules of Engagement.
Let me explain.
God’s Laws of the universe He has laid down from before Time. He is 100% Holy/Good. Evil (opposite of Good) exists.
When he created Man to have a relationship with, the Bible said God created Man in His image - i.e., ability to love, have free will. God had that beautiful relationship with Adam and Eve - but said ‘Do not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil’. You I’m sure know the story well. Satan (fallen angel) twisted the truth (Jesus said Satan is the father of Lies - i.e., his M.O. is to twist Truth). Eve was taken by what Jesus called the Lust of the Eyes, Lust of the Flesh, Pride of Life (’you shall be as Gods’ - back to what I said we are tempted and sin being mini-Gods).
The Bible states that therefore the entire creation suffers from Adam’s disobedience. Curse of Sin.
Back to God’s Laws. There is penalty for Sin. Sin (disobedience to God) will ALWAYS lead to harm of self or others (human or nature) - it’s what Sin is - it would not BE sin if it did not lead to harm or death.
But, then, God cannot change His Laws. He is true to Himself. While HIS solution (as planned from before the foundation of the World was laid down) - i.e., His Son’s coming, dying and breaking power of Sin and Death through his resurrection) was being implemented, we humans through the course of time, live our lives. We have individual choice to follow God’s ways - and he gives EVERYTHING necessary in FAITH *IN* Him, to have forgiveness AND that He rewards us with eternal Life for ACCEPTING His substitute payment.
BUT - Hitler and all other evil men CHOSE their fate. BUT the cause/effect of their choices STILL emanate throughout the earth - i.e., again God’s Law of the nature of Right/Wrong, Good/Evil, Life and Death, Sin/Righteousness - cannot be changed.
THEREFORE - God’s plan of salvation and redemption for each individual does not negate the effect of OTHER individuals’ evil choices already made - but those who God CAN show His Love and glory and holiness and goodness and kindness and power - then THEY can be used to manifest to the remaining OTHER living humans the POWER of God’s goodness and grace. They also - as Jesus said - be Light and Salt (i.e., vessels of God manifesting HIS goodness) to those around them.
Short answer - It’s the nature (construction) of things. Things play out according to the laws of the universe God has created. Good and bad. Because, at the end of the Day, the only way God honors Himself (His Name, i.e., integrity of who he is) - is by His Laws taking their course as designed but also then His Love providing healing of the ill effects of Evil.
Could never get a satisfactory answer to this one since I was a young’n. I suppose the universe must require yin and yang, light and dark, fire and ice, good and evil must coexist together or not at all? For whatever fundamental reason, only God knows.
God cannot be around sin. Sin makes us slaves to our flesh or mind to whatever we are addicted to or convinced to do from a worldly perspective.
You are right we are fallen people are worldly and cave to our flesh. Hence, why God sent His only son Jesus to pay the ultimate price on the cross for our sins.
Jesus died for our sins of the past, present and future.
All we have to do is believe in Him(in through our hearts). Which means at any time you can be forgiven for your sins if you believe and follow Jesus. You probably heard the story about Jesus on the cross talking to the thief? Even the thief could be forgiven.
It is one thing to say you believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but not believe it in your heart or by actions. At that point then you really don’t believe it. Moreover, you cannot trick God what is in your heart.
Before people are Christians we are slaves to the worldly things. For instance, sex, alcohol, money, etc... We do all these things without a conscious or a care. It’s all about what can I get out of this. All these things make us a slave to sin because we let our flesh dominate us instead of our conscious.
For instance, when people drink, get drunk and do things that they would normally never do or say sober. It is because their conscious falls asleep when drinking, and at that point they become very worldly (all about the flesh) and are just controlled by whatever their body wants vs. the mind or our conscious tells us.
Now when Christians say they are reborn. They believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He died for our sins. Thus, they transform from being slaves bound to sin to slaves bound to righteousness. Just because you become reborn Christian does not mean your life necessary gets easier. Haha!
The difference is you have conscious about this world and worldly things vs. the past you did not. So yes it makes it harder to be righteous. Your worldly desires will still be there. However, you see the world differently. It’s like being red pilled. If you stick to it and work on it. Over time your spirit (consciousness) and mind can overcome your body (aka your flesh).
So as for Hitler, Stalin and Mao. They were worldly, and never got to the State of Conscious. This is why when you die. You body and mind stay here, but your Soul (spirit or consciousness) transforms to a full Being.
You know the term human being. Human is our flesh and mind. Being is our spirit. Ultimately we are spiritual beings have a human experience. Our bodies are nothing more than a temporary suit. It may age but we always feel the same inside because our spirit does not age. I believe we are here to learn about love. This is a test we volunteered for before we existed. I suspect this is some type boot camp to go to the next level. Whatever that is?
Hope that gives you a better understanding.
Am a bit reluctant to continue this thread. However still not satisfied that you answered the question just why God with fore knowledge of all things would created a creature like Hitler. Consider a devout bewildered man who arrived in a concentration camp, had his wife and children forcibly taken from him and that night hungry and cold in a barracks surrounded by fifty other such men, prays fervently for help. Yet none comes.
Not the first time such questions have been asked. Christ himself did not call on legions of angels to save himself and the good thief from the horrors of the cross. Is the solace that He, the good thief , the man in the concentration camp and his family are now, despite their worldly suffering and injustices, forever in paradise and Hitler is with the cruel unsharing wealthy man in the parable eternally damned? Why would God create such imperfect creatures who’s fate is to be eternally damned?
Ok, I’m going to be brief.
You keep mentioning foreknowledge as prevention of future decision. That is a fallacy. Foreknowledge does NOT change the future decision - it just KNOWS of it.
The temporal suffering of the effects of Sin (it’s nature, by God’s established laws), as bad as they are, do not compare to the eternal lasting effects of choices for good and evil.
God created Man. Man was to procreate. Each subsequent human had/has choices. (not discussing Age of Accountability here). ALL have sinned (because of our inherited sinful nature from Adam) and therefore are subject to DEATH (Spiritual Death) as rightful punishment but God, in His perfect Love, planned Redemption through Faith in Christ and His atonement on the Cross. Period. Finished Payment.
So Hitler and you and me - IF we reject that FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE through the PAYMENT IN FULL ALREADY LAID DOWN, then WE are choosing - NOT GOD, *WE* are choosing to spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire - something made for the Devil and his angels.
As the Bible states - (again - negating your fallacy/question of ‘Why-would-God-create-failure?’) - “For God wills(desires) that NONE should perish but that ALL should be saved” (don’t read universalism in this - just pointing out God’s DESIRE/WISH/WANT balanced with Free Will - again HIS law/construct HE created)
Just as with Pharoah - Paul talks about (somewhat heady discussion) foreknowledge/predestination and how if God knew Pharoah would harden his heart, AND USE PHAROAH FOR GOD’S GLORY (freeing the Jews from Egypt) then why blame Pharoah? - But here, as with Hilter, Mao, the little ‘good’ church-lady down the street (but still unrepentant), they like you and me - had/have their choice.
God is true to Himself and His perfect Love, Justice and Mercy and Truth. You and I choose to accept that.
Don’t blame God for people’s choices. But also, don’t confuse the consequence and effect of OTHER people choosing death and sin and evil - on the rest of those around them.
We are not puppets and have free will. Satan is our Tester.
In other words, we are being tested.
John12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out
John 16:11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
Satan was destroyed at the cross. Jesus dwells in us. God doesn’t need to tempt us of something he has condemned.
The church needs to stop blaming all its shortcomings on a devil and start doing what they were given the power to do.
Jesus clearly stated that nothing on the outside of the body can make us unclean. The source of all our problems comes from within. That is why Paul was so adamant about protecting our hearts against evil. Free will allows you to do evil. It’s not a test from beyond
John 14:19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
I guess you didn’t get the memo
A good start to understand is to read Job. Job is one of the most informative books.
It kind of goes along with “Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?”
If God allows free will then free will is granted to both good and evil people. God didn’t “cause” the Holocaust, but by his just nature of granting free will he had to let it happen.
God returned to us the “Tree of Life” in Jesus
He also allows us still to eat from the tree of good and evil, it’s our choice
God chose to give us his power to do his work on earth.
The most terrible things that happen here are because the good allow the evil to stand unchecked.
Why did the church allow Hitler to get that far? Hell, some of the church helped him.
In many cases, we are the blame for the atrocities on earth, not God
Your point of “without evil we would not know what is good” is right. This is a perfect example of the metaphor of the tree of good and evil. Man did not know evil until their eyes were open in Eden. We were not created to judge good and evil, we only knew good until then.
If God allows free will then free will is granted to both good and evil people.
Not to be too hard on the questioner but asking that question serves no useful purpose. Nor do the questions I posed.
To do so only wastes what precious little time we have on this earth to make it a better place.
We make it a better place by making "good" decisions. Thanks to Adam and Eve, we now have that power.
Jesus death on the cross and resurrection defeated sin and death.
“I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies.”
That not be misconstrued to mean sin does not exist nor the devil, and that everyone has a free ride in life.
Guess you misunderstood...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.