Posted on 01/13/2020 7:24:58 PM PST by gundisalvus
The real problem with nationalism, the kind that President Trump campaigned on, is that it offers true and therefore intolerable normality in a clown world. It is normal to want to stay out of foreign wars, to preserve your religion, language, people, and culture.
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I’m not sure what you’re getting at, but I’ll take a shot.
We are a nation of immigrants, and have been subject to ‘deracination’ since the day ‘we’ arrived here, when many of us ‘went native’; and a short while later others hooked-up with African-born slaves (mostly men, hooking-up with slave women.) Then, we had wave upon wave of immigrants who came here, became Americans, and helped the Nation to prosper.
And still we have largely maintained all of the things that you seem to think we have lost.
We are all ‘racially’ ‘mixed-up-and-turned-around’ - (as I understand they phrase it down in the Islands) - and it never hurt us until insidious *ideological* elements began to infect our politics, education system, and culture.
You need to look closely to discover exactly who was responsible for all of the degeneration and decay that you see around you. It was mostly rich, influential, White men with so-called ‘progressive’ ideas.
Pedro Gonzalez: The real problem with nationalism, the kind that President Trump campaigned on, is that it offers true and therefore intolerable normality in a clown world. It is normal to want to stay out of foreign wars, to preserve your religion, language, people, and culture.
Nationalism?
Its not nationalism. Its simply the preservation of the Constitution and creating policies that follow the plain meaning of The Constitution.
Its the national pursuit of liberty and prosperity, regardless of race, ethnicity or religion.
Its not ““Deutschland über Alles” nor is it Utopian as that song implies historically.
Kudos to President Trump for bringing America’s policy to enlightened self interest.
It works.
And its NOT “racist” either, a favored trope of those screaming that President Trump is a Nazi etc.Just examine the minority and ethnic employment numbers.
The true nationalists are the liberal fascists of America.
Its explained clearly here :
“Barack Obama: The Quintessential Liberal Fascist”
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2009/05/barack_obam_the_quintessentia_1.html)
Unless you are counting the Native Americans (who were probably immigrants themselves), everyone else here IS descended from immigrants - and the children of those, and their children, ad infinitum.
My father’s ancestors came here in the early 1600s. My mother’s and my husband’s came in late 1800 to early 1900. I have friends whose ancestors were brought here on slave ships, long before many of our ‘white’ persons arrived.
If you think only people who have been here since ‘the founders’ are true Americans, then I guess I’m golden. But most of the people here today are descended from immigrants who came AFTER the founding. They practice different religions, have different cultural references that they honor, and even when they speak English, many still preserve their own languages.
You can argue all you want about illegal immigration, and I won’t argue in return. But the idea that there is some racial/ethnic ‘Americanism’ is ridiculous to me.
To me, being an American equates to a philosophy and an Ideal. I personally think it’s a good Ideal for the entire world; and while we shouldn’t force anyone or any Nation into adopting it - that’s always a losing proposition - I think we should help and encourage those who sincerely aspire toward it.
By your definition, every nation on Earth is a “nation of immigrants”.
Yep, white liberal elites... root of many problems.
You might be referring to what's known as the "zeroth amendment"
This nation started out as a nation of settlers, not immigrants, and was set up for the posterity of the founders. From the preamble of the Constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
The Zeroth Amendment, according to Steve Sailer:
The Zeroth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, as carved in marble on the Statue of Liberty by Founding Father Emma Lazarus in 1776, reads:
“Everybody in the world gets to be an American. So, shut up, bigot.”
I guess every *nation* IS a nation of immigrants.
For decades, Science has seemed to tell us that we all came out of Africa (which was not a ‘nation’ or even a conglomeration of such, at the time) and then - they suggest - we began to move around.
(I’m not sure that I buy that - I’ve always thought that it’s possible that homo sapiens may have sprung-up in different places. But I’m not a scientist.)
Apart from speculation: ‘nation’ is a civilized concept. We probably recognized family, tribe, shared religiosity, long before we recognized ‘nation’.
I don’t think I’d want to go back to those very limited and insular ways of thinking. It took a long time for that viewpoint to evolve into the genius of the Founders of our Republic, and there’s never any sense in going backward. Even if we go back to retrieve something we’ve lost, we will always interpret and apply it in new ways.
OK. The majority of us make up a nation of the descendants of immigrants.
The vast majority of us wouldn’t be here, if our ancestors hadn’t come here from other places, cultures, ethnicities. Irish, German, Spanish, Jewish, French, African, Chinese, Aboriginal American, &c - they’ve all bled red, in all of our wars.
We can quibble over how we interpret words (and employ words in service of our knee-jerk issues) as much as we like; but the facts of our history remain.
” ...the genius of the Founders of our Republic, ...”
As bkopto noticed, the Founders stated “... in order to preserve the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and OUR posterity ...”
This is not to say no one else is welcome but rather that there is NO international human right to come to the United States.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/07/words-mean-things.html
I’m not arguing for an ‘international right’.
I’m arguing against the idea that being American is somehow a racial/ethnic/religious ‘Thing’; and in favor of the notion that ‘Our Posterity’ refers to the perpetuation of a philosophical Ideal, instead.
I think the founders were adequately far-seeing and idealistic enough to anticipate that their work would change the world, and not just change the little portion of a continent that they and their foreseeable progeny would occupy.
I believe they were doing ‘God’s Work’, not just the work of narrow-minded, materialistic men who couldn’t see beyond the generations of their own loins.
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