Posted on 03/23/2018 5:57:54 AM PDT by w1n1
The .22 Short was developed back in 1857 for Smith & Wesson revolver.
Created for the metallic cartridge with a 29-30 grain bullet, pushed by 4 grains of black powder.
This was mainly developed for self-defense, nowadays this cartridge has little penetration and knockdown power.
So how low in caliber should one go before your personal defense firearm is too light?
Youtuber mark3smle did some ballistic gelatin test with this .22 Short.
Overall the .22 penetrated 4 inches through a pair of pants into the gelatin. mark3smle goes onto comparing a knife penetration could do the job as well. Theres going to be different views on this.
A knife fighter with training would probably boast his skillset as superior at close range.
However, with a .22 Short you can still tactically use it without the bad guy knowing it until its too late. What do you all think?, Would you go with a .22 Shorty for self-defense? See the full 22 Shorty or knife review here.
Here's what some are saying on social media:
Many years ago, I pulled a 22 LR 6-shot revolver on 8 guys. We were out in the boonies, the nearest cop was probably 20+ miles away, and the 8 guys were approaching me while spreading out.
I had the revolver for plinking. I pulled it and figured I’d shoot the first guy in the nose. Then I’d go down, because 8 guys rushing one guy with a 22 won’t end well. But as it turned out, no one wanted to volunteer for a 22 round up the nose. Not entirely sure any of them KNEW it was a 22. So I ended up getting in my car and driving off, although I didn’t put the revolver down for several miles.
I’ve carried a 22 LR derringer. Not optimum, but extremely concealable. I’m not a trained knife fighter and don’t carry a fixed blade knife very often. In a pinch, I’d rather have the 22 derringer than a folding knife. But I’d rather have my 357!
Tueller Drill. Yep. And in everything proficiency matters.
BOOKmarkLINKS
There’s a lot of what if’s in this scenario.
Fact is, almost every time this drill happens - guy with the gun is DRT because they think that 20 or 21 feet is enough space.
Most determined attackers can close that gap in less than 2 seconds.
There’s a youtube video with a GA Tech student with a knife and multiple cops around him. They did the right thing but you know this training was on their mind when this event happened.
Someone once asked him what small caliber he would carry with shorts and a tshirt, since he couldn’t conceal a .45 caliber. He said he’d carry a .45 in a shopping sack. I’ve pretty much lived by the same rule.
I wouldn’t be really worried about carrying a good .22LR either, since I would be pretty confident I could put 7 or 8 in their face really fast.
Indeed, a good man with a fighting knife can be lethal, but rest assured, anyone who slices/stabs another had better grapple the man as well. Even though it takes about 4-10 seconds for a healthy man to loose consciousness from a severed aorta, four to ten seconds is a lot of time to shoot about 10 shots....
Tactics, not just weaponry is the key.
Regarding the 22 short ( or anything up to 32 ACP for that matter), one ought to consider how much insurance coverage they have on their life- if they think they are worth 10k in life insurance, fine, those platforms/calibers ought to be just fine, but if one decides that they need 500k+ worth of LI, then any platform starting with a “.4” ought to be in their primary hands reach. The mouser- sure, in an ankle holster for those really bad times, along with the fighting caliber and a decent knife....
Now, the little old lady? She ought to be carrying a smaller caliber that she can both handle well and shoot well, tiny platform is probably not it.
example- my wife used to carry a pocket 380, Ruger or Taurus, then rheumatoid arthritis began affecting her ability to operate the tiny platform reliably, she now carries “Walther”- her turquoise P22. She knows that she can back me up as I deal with issues using “JohnM “or “Gaston”.
What’s in your holster?
Finally, truth be told, in over 20 years of CCW cert training, I have seldom found a woman who can effectively use a pocket 380. They do much better with mid to full size 9s or better. Few men can display more than barely adequate skills too with pocket guns-they never think of practicing reloads/IA/RA with the boutique pistols.
Of course, in MO, the qual standard is 15 hits/20 shots from low ready at 7 yards on a B27 or equivalent, so tagging a giant is not the issue. One woman took about five minutes to find her baby 380 in her voluminous purse on range day..... My wife set her straight on off body carry.
No right thinking human would risk taking even a .22SR to the head unless their were huge stakes involved. In the situation you described, even a 10mm would have had a hard time fending them off if they bum rushed you. Of course, it would greatly increase the odds that anyone who was hit would be seriously injured or killed.
I'm glad it ended well for you. That sounds like more excitement than I'd want.
The last thing you want to do is shoot someone because there are life-changing repercussions even if totally justified.
Fortunately, in 98% of defensive gun uses (DGUs), a shot is not fired.
Which means that a mouse gun is as good as a cannon 98% of the time.
Fact: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
Source: http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/7.1/Gun-Facts-7.1-screen.pdf, page 21.
Fact: A victim may have a strong reluctance to talk to a government agent about a firearm brandishing incident (which are 98% of DGUs) because they may not know the act was 100% legal.
Source: http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/7.1/Gun-Facts-7.1-screen.pdf, page 83.
In other words, the 98% number is probably low.
A gun is always better than a knife unless you are highly HIGHLY trained in knife fighting.
I realize a .22 has no immediate stopping power but it is still a gun. It wont stop someone on PCP, but it could easily stop anyone who doesnt want to get shot. Just seeing a gun pointed at them causes most all assailants to flee. It is a small amount who will rush you. A small .22 still makes a loud BANG, and any bang says dangerous to most people. Not many will stick around while you are shooting that .22 their way to analyze the caliber. For most perps it is an Oh Fuuuuuuuu moment and they dont wait around to see if you are shooting blanks or a .44.
Gun all day every day, even a .380 or .25 or .22. It still goes bang.
Internet warriors will tell you you are toast without at least a .44 magnum. I would love to know how many people successfully stopped an assault with a .22, .25, or .380. I would love to know the numbers.
What kind of idiot lets a perp close to 20 feet before presenting his firearm. Nobody in real life.
The 21 foot rule is real, and yes the assailant will close the distance before a victim can unholster and present his weapon. In reality, if I see a man coming at me with a knife, i have my gun on target on trigger long brfore he gets 7 steps from me, and I am trying to create distance all the time.
Try the same drill with the victim on target on trigger, and Mr Knife gets shot every time.
The only use for the drill with holstered weapons is to emphasize not to let someone close to 7 steps with your firearm holstered. That is called “situational awareness” and it means you have the gun out at low ready as soon as you see a man with a knife approaching ou. If he keeps it up, then you go on target and shout for him to STOP.
You have made my point exactly.
A .22 wont stop a charging crack head, but then a .45 probably wont either. Brandish a gun and it is very unlikely that perps intent on robbing you or beating you or kidnapping you for an ATM withdrawal probably are not going to want to press the issue and probably cannot tell the caliber of the gun while they are running away.
I would never carry one because I like big holes and want insurance against someone too mad or stupid to run away. But 95% of the time or more, you pull a.22 on a perp and he is not going to want to get shot and cant tell the caliber anyway while he is still pocessing the fact he expected you to be disarmed.
Excellent example.
Faces have a habit of moving when dangerous objects are pointed at & striking them.
8 rounds is high for a pocket pistol.
I’d do nothing less than a flat subcompact 9mm a la Glock 43. Better to do in 1-2 rounds what takes 7-8 in .22LR.
Just visiting.
Can anybody really live in Iceland?
Now I'm jealous!
Seriously, good on ya...treat it as the priceless piece it is.
I do have a letter from the Col, congratulating me on my promotion to E-9, back in '88.
Damn good man, I miss him and one's like him, every single day.
The .22 short was designed to kill you slowly through infection. No antibiotics were available.
No argument with a bigger caliber, but I’d much rather have a S&W kit gun than a knife!
My "American Express" piece...
("Don't leave home without it!")
Always in my "other wallet" -- even if I'm packing the HK or the S&W...
People don’t get to determine their circumstances and your points aren’t even realistic.
Any thug walking on the street next to you can do what was presented and you not even realize it. By the time you do, your arteries are bleeding dry.
As far as situational awareness - does that mean you eyeball everybody and make them stay 20 feet away from you gun in hand all the time?
You obviously have never seen the drill.
Yep, good advice.
Only problem is any “Joe” or “Jane” walking next to you at the store, sidewalk, street, could be the perp.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.