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Greenfield: We Can Have Gay Rights or Freedom of Speech
Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog ^ | Saturday, December 21, 2013 | Daniel Greenfield

Posted on 12/22/2013 5:55:43 AM PST by Louis Foxwell

Saturday, December 21, 2013

We Can Have Gay Rights or Freedom of Speech

Posted by Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog

What do a reality show star, a cakemaker and a photographer have in common? They're all victims of a political system in which the mandate to not merely recognize gay marriage, but to celebrate it, has completely displaced freedom of speech.

The issues at stake in all three cases did not involve the Orwellian absurdity of "Marriage Equality". The cases of a Christian cakemaker and a Christian photographer whom state courts have ruled must participate in gay weddings or face fines and jail time were blatant violations of both Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion in the name of outlawing any dissent from gay marriage.

That is why Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty was suspended. Robertson, unlike Bashir, didn't take to the air to make violent threats against an individual. He expressed in plain language that he believes homosexuality is wrong. And that is something that you aren't allowed to do anymore.

The left sneers that A&E isn't subject to Freedom of Speech because it's a private company. And they're right. But then they insist that a cakemaker and a photographer aren't protected by Freedom of Speech or Religion because they're private businesses.

In their constitutional universe, companies have the right to punish speech in the name of gay rights, but not to engage in protected speech in dissent from gay rights. And that's exactly the problem. It's not just gays who have been made into a protected class, but homosexuality itself. To dissent from it is bigotry that you can be fired for, fined for and even jailed for.

Gay rights were not settled by legalizing gay marriage. We are facing an ugly choice between freedom of speech and gay rights.

In these three cases, gay rights activists have made it clear that we can have one or the other. But we can't have a country where we have both gay weddings and people who disagree with them.

And that's unfortunate because even the most generous interpretation of the benefits of two men marrying each other would struggle to prove that it is more beneficial to a society than the ability to speak your own mind and to practice your own religion without being compelled to violate it.

If we have to choose between gay rights and the First Amendment, the moral arc of the universe that liberals like to invoke so often will not swing toward the bullies who insist on dealing with their self-esteem problems by forcing everyone to consent and approve of their lifestyle.

Gay marriage was sold to Americans by cunningly crafted "gay families" on popular sitcoms. Now Americans are discovering that real gay activists aren't friendly people who just want to make jokes between commercial breaks, but are neurotic and insecure bullies who attack others from behind the safety of the politicians that they bribed with the massive disposable incomes that comes from not having families or long-term relationships.

Most Americans still believe that homosexuality, adultery and a range of other deviant sexual behaviors are sins. They also, like Phil Robertson, believe that disapproving of a behavior does not mean rejecting the person. That's where they part company with gay activists who are unable to tolerate Phil Robertson as a person if they are also unable to tolerate his opinion of their sexual habits.

The American tolerance for things like homosexuality comes from a mindset that is a lot closer to Phil Robertson than it is to Barack Obama. It's that very Phil Robertson attitude which allows Americans to disapprove of homosexuality, while accepting that homosexuals should have spaces for expressing their need for political identity ceremonies. That tolerance led to civil unions and then gay marriage. And that tolerance has been woefully abused.

Americans are far more tolerant of sexual misbehavior than they are of people trying to take away their civil rights. And that is something that gay rights activists need to consider carefully.

American tolerance for homosexuality is not a blank check. It's not the "progressive" endgame that the left believes it is in which tolerance for a thing is mistaken for the Stalinist willingness to punish dissent from that very thing.

When ordinary Americans talk about tolerance, they mean tolerance. When the left talks about tolerance, it means intolerance.

Now the gay rights movement, which is just another pimple on the bony arm of the left, is showing its true colors. It is showing that its calls for tolerance are really mandates for intolerance.

It isn't looking for public spaces in which to be gay, but the elimination of public and even private spaces that reject homosexuality. It's not gay rights that we are talking about, but gay mandates.

If Americans are forced to choose between Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion and gay rights; the Pajama Boys of America may not like which way they will vote.


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: greenfield; homosexualagenda; sultanknish
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1 posted on 12/22/2013 5:55:43 AM PST by Louis Foxwell
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To: daisy mae for the usa; AdvisorB; wizardoz; free-in-nyc; Vendome; Georgia Girl 2; blaveda; ...

Homosexuals may celebrate their depravity. They my not require me to join the party. I will tolerate their depravity but they must tolerate my condemnation of their depravity.


2 posted on 12/22/2013 5:58:45 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

RNC Committeeman Dave Agema actually said it best a while back.

Basically he made the point that gays already have every single constitutional right that every other American has. The difference is the fact that they’re trying to silence any who disapproves which effectively means outlawing religion in public.


3 posted on 12/22/2013 6:02:01 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Louis Foxwell

4 posted on 12/22/2013 6:03:45 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: cripplecreek
outlawing religion in public

That is the goal of everything they do -- and it's specifically aimed at Christianity. All Leftwing policy is aimed at eliminating faith in God. All of it

5 posted on 12/22/2013 6:05:46 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Louis Foxwell

Gays have rights like everyone else.we don’t need a liberation movement for a sexual act.


6 posted on 12/22/2013 6:07:00 AM PST by Williams (No Obama)
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To: Louis Foxwell

Well written, well said. Thank you for posting.


7 posted on 12/22/2013 6:07:00 AM PST by onona (The Earth is the insane asylum for the universe (yup, I belong))
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To: Louis Foxwell

If we were really having a discussion about “marriage equality” in this country, perhaps we could have it.

But its not about gays getting married, its about creating a society where those who disagree with homosexuality and gay marriage are marginalized in our society.

Those who espouse those views are entitled to their First Amendment rights but the angry mob says no.

Those who oppose homosexuality and gay marriage will become the equivalent of black people in the South during Jim Crow days and Jews in mid 1930’s Germany. They will be excluded from employment and business.

ALL AMERICANS WHO BELIEVE IN OUR CONSTITUTION AND ITS GUARANTEES CANNOT BE SILENT IN THESE MATTERS REGARDLESS OF THEIR VIEWS ABOUT SEXUALITY.

We have seen these kind of bullies who label people “haters” before. They stood outside of businesses in Germany 80 years ago with “Jew” signs.

Pastor Niemoller in Germany stood by while they went after trade union leaders, Catholics, Jews etc. etc.

EVERYBODY’S FREEDOM IS EVERYBODY’S BUSINESS


8 posted on 12/22/2013 6:10:43 AM PST by Nextrush (AFFORDABLE CARE ACT=HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY BAILOUT ACT)
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To: Williams

There is no specific right to marriage in the constitution. Marriage falls under our constitutional religious freedoms.

Gays aren’t seeking a right, they’re seeking to impose their will.


9 posted on 12/22/2013 6:12:53 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

exactly, what the homostapo want is for us to be silenced and not inform anyone what the homosexual agenda is really all about plus tramping on the first amendment, freedom of religion, speech and the 10th amendment.

A fed judge should not decide how a state like NM or UT should govern their marriages , this was a state issue not a fed issue


10 posted on 12/22/2013 6:13:03 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Louis Foxwell
As a new Christian (many years ago), I was suckered into defending my new faith with a fellow collegian. For being new to the faith, I held up pretty well. The kicker was when they fell back to the old "You're not very tolerant of my views!" statement. It had to be divine, but I looked at them calmly and retorted: "Well, I don't think you're being very tolerant of my views either!".

The deer-in-the-headlights look as they saw their bigotry in the mirror was priceless! The sword cuts both ways...

11 posted on 12/22/2013 6:13:10 AM PST by Dubh_Ghlase (Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

I despise the term “homophobic”. It’s a made up term used to describe the inherent irrationality of people who are against homosexuality.

Phobic means “irrational fear”. Just because people for any number of reasons disapprove of Homosexuality, and all that goes along with it ie. sodomy, promiscuity, AIDS etc doesn’t make them either fearful or irrational!


12 posted on 12/22/2013 6:14:26 AM PST by traderrob6
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To: Louis Foxwell

Homosexuals have the same rights as hetrosexuals.


13 posted on 12/22/2013 6:16:44 AM PST by sport
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To: Louis Foxwell
Sultanic Bump
14 posted on 12/22/2013 6:17:02 AM PST by tomkat
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To: Louis Foxwell

Gay rights are about two things: money and validation.

Money - Gays want to get the same perceived financial advantages of married couples. Tax breaks and spousal benefits. In the case of politics, politicians want to get contributions from the amble discretionary funds that many gays have. In the case of the military, gays want the extra pay for people who live off-base and medical coverage of tricare for their gay partners.

Validation - Gays couples want the same legitimacy of normal heterosexual couples. They want validation from everyone, more enjoyable to them, if that validation is forced upon a reluctant segment of the population. Also, since many gays are resentful towards religion, they want to undermine those churches and poke them in the eye with their behavior.

All of this goes beyond toleration or the simple demand to be treated with dignity. They want to become a protected class beyond reproach.


15 posted on 12/22/2013 6:18:20 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededicaton to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution...)
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To: Louis Foxwell

16 posted on 12/22/2013 6:18:34 AM PST by Baynative (Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians.)
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To: cripplecreek
Actually, our own Jim Robinson has emphasized this fact over the years.
17 posted on 12/22/2013 6:19:36 AM PST by sport
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To: Louis Foxwell

AS I read this article, what I come away with, is that there shall be a war. It will not be the SHTF’er’s war, not yet.

It will be a war of a magnitude that could justify the eradication of possibly 2% of the American population. That is a lot of Americans. However, when John Q. / Jane Q. Public cannot speak their mind about any issue at all, then a lot of headstones, in a lot of military cemeteries, got there, for nothing!

Will the Sodomites silence me? No. They might be ‘Americans’, but they are endearing Communist ideology, and that I will not stand for.

Do not be fooled, fellow Americans. If there be war, it will because the homosexuals in this country, will be the ones “firing the first shot at Fort Sumter”, not John Q. / Jane Q. Public.


18 posted on 12/22/2013 6:20:16 AM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: cripplecreek

That is a very worthwhile reminder. In my occasional, painful discussions with queers about rights, my fav question is, “What Constitutional rights do I have that you don’t have?” After they sputter and stumble around from a minute, I say, “Then quit you’re bitching. There’s nothing special about me and there’s nothing special about you.”


19 posted on 12/22/2013 6:21:47 AM PST by upchuck (My Internet addiction is so bad... it's alt of ctrl.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
I've been saying this on Free Republic for many years now:

Christianity and homosexualism (the political arm of the movement) cannot coexist.

They know this too. It will get very ugly in the near future. Far worse than what we're seeing today.

20 posted on 12/22/2013 6:24:51 AM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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