Posted on 11/11/2009 6:52:34 PM PST by clove
Recently on ABC television news, one of their videos showed a U.S. Marine hunkered down in Afghanistan complaining on camera that he was not allowed to shoot back when under fire. This situation resulted from Obama’s new rules of engagement from his new Afghanistan commander. General McChrystal explained it to BBC news that they are now advising troops to break off from firefights with the Taliban, "If you are in a situation where you are under fire from the enemy... if there is any chance of creating civilian casualties or if you don't know whether you will create civilian casualties, if you can withdraw from that situation without firing, then you must do so”
(Excerpt) Read more at backpacker.com ...
At this point, veteran groups need to enter this conversation and warn the administration that they are making a grave error.
Vets groups should send the following message:
“With all due respect to Generals McChrystal & Petraeus, they could not possibly mean that our troops are to disengage with dead and wounded while the taliban or al qaeda walks free.
“He MUST mean that “when it is possible for our troops to exit with zero casualties” that they are advised to disengage when civilians are endangered. When in imminent danger, our troops are advised to defend themselves with all necessary force.”
The VFW, DAV, Am Legion, and AmVets are the organizations who should carry this battle to the media and to the American people.
Contrary to mistaken popular belief, close air support has not been eliminated by “politically correct” ROE. The October 2nd National Review piece from Andrew McCarthy reflects the position of the anti-war right, who, like the anti war left, express concern primarily for the health and welfare of US troops, of course.
McCarthy’s point, it turns out, was ill-timed - published immediately before an intense firefight in Nuristan, wherein outnumbered coalition forces fought off insurgent/militia/Taliban (take your pick) attackers, with the aid of artillery and close air support.
The fighting came on a day when poor weather limited visibility. The insurgents struck from positions in a mosque, village buildings and hillside positions above the outpost, which is in the Kamdesh area of Nurestan province. Surrounded by enemy fighters and under heavy fire, U.S. soldiers called in ground reinforcements, along with attack helicopters, airplanes and surveillance drones. U.S. forces eventually repelled the attack while inflicting “a significant amount of casualties” on insurgents, Smith said. “Virtually everything that could be thrown at it was thrown at it.”
“Artillery, helicopter gunships, surveillance drones and airstrikes inflicted “heavy enemy casualties,” according to NATO.
That should offer a bit of perspective to the ROE debate. But already there are those who would ask the “hard questions” regarding the contribution of overly-restrictive ROE to Saturday’s battle. If anything, the anticipation that such support would be denied could have emboldened the attackers (and will in the future). If so in this case, in the end they realized they were mistaken.
*****
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/032713.html And without expectation that it will do anything whatsoever to reduce claims of soldiers as “sitting ducks”, here are the CENTAF Airpower Summaries for October 1st and 2nd - what they were doing while others were furiously typing away.
2 October:
U.S. Air Forces Central Public Affairs
SOUTHWEST ASIA — Coalition airpower integrated with ground forces in Iraq and the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan in the following operations Oct. 2, according to Combined Air and Space Operations Center officials here.
In Afghanistan, Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle aircraft flew armed overwatch in the Asmar area. Friendly forces reported receiving fire and requested air power assistance to deter the enemy action. When target coordinates were confirmed, the aircraft deployed numerous precision guided munitions ending the attack. A show of force was also conducted to deter further enemy action.
Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt II and MQ-1B Predator aircraft were in the vicinity of Tarin Kowt providing armed overwatch for friendly ground forces when the unit received enemy small arms fire. The point of origin for the enemy fire was confirmed and shows of force were made with flares expended. An enemy weapon was located and destroyed by a missile strike that triggered a major secondary explosion. The actions were considered successful.
Asadabad saw F-15E aircraft in the skies providing overwatch for a friendly forces’ convoy. Shows of force were requested to deter any enemy action while the convoy passed through the area. The shows of force were successful in defusing an imminent threat to the safety of the convoy, there was no enemy attack.
In the vicinity of Nad E Ali, Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt II aircraft were providing armed overwatch for friendly ground forces when they came under enemy small arms fire. The ground forces returned fire and aircrews supported the ground forces by conducting strafing runs against the enemy position ending the enemy fire.
At Asmar, Air Force F-16C and F-15E aircraft provided overwatch for friendly forces. The aircraft were also conducting reconnaissance for suspicious activity in the area. When enemy forces were identified at several locations, precision guided munitions and a strafing run were employed to successfully destroy the enemy positions.
Marine AV-8B Harrier aircraft were in the area over Lashkar Gah providing armed overwatch for friendly forces in the area. The aircraft responded to a request for air support when the enemy attacked from a treeline position. The coordinates for the enemy position were passed to the aircraft and strafing runs were executed that neutralized the enemy position.
Remak had F-15E aircraft overhead providing armed overwatch for friendly forces during a helicopter resupply operation. The aircraft noted suspicious activity in the form of possible improvised explosive device emplacement teams and performed a show force to interrupt the enemy activity. The action was successful as the suspected emplacers immediately vacated the scene.
Sheykhabad had F-16C aircraft providing armed overwatch for coalition forces in the area. The F-16Cs were also tasked to support a friendly forces patrol in the area and when requested provided a show of force that successfully deterred enemy action.
A-10 aircraft provided armed overwatch for friendly forces in the Kandahar area. The A-10s were tasked to support a friendly forces’ patrol in an area that had earlier been subjected to an IED attack. As the patrol approached, shows of force were performed to deter any potential enemy action. The shows of force were successful.
In Kabul, F-15E aircraft supported a friendly forces foot patrol that was searching for hostile personnel. The aircraft provided armed overwatch and then displayed a show of force, with flares expended for the patrol when requested.
In Iraq, Air Force F-16C aircraft were in the vicinity of Rawah when friendly forces requested a show of force. The show of force was performed and declared successful.
In total, 68 close air support missions were flown in support of the ISAF and Afghan security forces, reconstruction activities and route patrols.
Thirty-two Air Force, Navy and coalition surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft flew missions as part of operations in Afghanistan.
In total, 23 close air support missions were flown in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. These missions integrated and synchronized with ground forces, protected key infrastructure, provided overwatch for reconstruction activities, and helped to deter and disrupt hostile activities
Twenty-five Air Force and Navy surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft flew missions as part of operations in Iraq. In addition, two Air Force aircraft performed tactical reconnaissance.
U.S. Air Force C-130s and C-17s provided intra-theater heavy airlift, helping to sustain operations throughout Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Horn of Africa.
U.S. Air Force airlift crews flew 138 airlift sorties; 452 short tons of cargo were delivered; and about 4,000 passengers were transported. This included about 105,000 pounds of aerial resupply cargo dropped over Afghanistan.
Coalition C-130 crews flew as part of operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.
On Oct. 1, Air Force HH-60 Pave Hawk helicopters and “Guardian Angel” teams transported eight patients to coalition field hospitals from locations in Afghanistan. Pararescue team members aboard located, rescued and began treatment to stabilize patients in the battlefield. The Pave Hawk transported these patients to field hospitals in less time than it takes for a civilian patient to reach emergency care by ambulance in most major cities.
U.S. Air Force aerial refueling crews flew 53 sorties and off-loaded approximately 3.4 million pounds of fuel to 246 receiving aircraft.
1 October:
SOUTHWEST ASIA — Coalition airpower integrated with ground forces in Iraq and the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan in the following operations Oct. 1, according to Combined Air and Space Operations Center officials here.
In Afghanistan, Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle aircraft flew armed overwatch in the Asmar area. Friendly forces reported receiving fire and requested shows of force to deter the enemy action. The shows of force were considered successful in deterring enemy activity.
Sheykhabad saw F-15E aircraft in the skies providing overwatch for friendly forces. When friendly forces started receiving sporadic enemy fire a request for air support was made. Several enemy positions were confirmed and strafing runs made to eliminate the positions. One enemy position required a precision guided munition to end the attack from that location. Two additional shows of force were made to deter further potential enemy aggression.
Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt II aircraft were in the vicinity of Chahar Bagh providing armed overwatch for friendly ground forces and a convoy when the friendly ground forces reported receiving enemy small arms fire. The point of origin for the enemy fire was confirmed and marked with a rocket. Aircrews supported the ground forces by conducting strafing runs against the enemy compound. The action was considered successful.
At Balocan, coalition aircraft provided overwatch for a friendly forces’ patrol. The aircraft were also conducting reconnaissance for any suspicious activity in the patrol area. When friendly forces came under enemy fire, a show of force was conducted to deter the enemy aggression. The show of force successfully terminated enemy action.
Sheykhabad had F-15E Strike Eagle aircraft providing armed overwatch for friendly forces in the area. The F-15Es were also tasked to support helicopter operations in the area and when requested provided several shows of force that successfully deterred enemy action.
F-15E Strike Eagle aircraft were also overhead at Farah providing armed overwatch for friendly forces. The aircraft performed several shows of force in an effort to deter enemy action during an operation and they were considered successful as no enemy action occurred.
Near Shurakian, Navy F/A-18C Hornet aircraft provided armed overwatch for a coalition forces’ convoy in the area. The convoy passed a compound where suspicious activity had been noted earlier. A show of force was requested and was successful in deterring any threatening activity while the convoy passed.
In Iraq, Air Force F-16C aircraft were in the vicinity of Tall Afar when friendly forces requested a show of force. The action successfully deterred enemy aggression and was declared a success.
In total, 86 close air support missions were flown in support of the ISAF and Afghan security forces, reconstruction activities and route patrols.
Thirty-one Air Force, Navy and coalition surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft flew missions as part of operations in Afghanistan. In addition, two Navy aircraft performed tactical reconnaissance.
In total, 22 close air support missions were flown in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. These missions integrated and synchronized with ground forces, protected key infrastructure, provided overwatch for reconstruction activities, and helped to deter and disrupt hostile activities
Twenty-four Air Force and Navy surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft flew missions as part of operations in Iraq. In addition, two Air Force aircraft performed tactical reconnaissance.
U.S. Air Force C-130 Hercules and C-17 Globemaster IIIs provided intra-theater heavy airlift, helping to sustain operations throughout Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Horn of Africa.
U.S. Air Force airlift crews flew 165 airlift sorties; 4,680 short tons of cargo were delivered; and about 3,000 passengers were transported. This included about 110,000 pounds of aerial resupply cargo dropped over Afghanistan.
Coalition C-130 crews flew as part of operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.
On Sept. 30, Air Force HH-60 Pave Hawk helicopters and “Guardian Angel” teams transported seven patients to Coalition field hospitals from locations in Afghanistan. Pararescue Team members aboard located, rescued and began treatment to stabilize patients in the battlefield. The Pave Hawk transported these patients to field hospitals in less time than it takes for a civilian patient to reach emergency care by ambulance in most major cities.
U.S. Air Force aerial refueling crews flew 57 sorties and off-loaded approximately 3.6 million pounds of fuel to 264 receiving aircraft.
Obama wants to get rid of all nukes too. Can I assume the White House has a large order pending for white cloth and long poles?
Obama wants to get rid of our nukes too. Guess we’ll be waging war with “spitballs at 2 paces” from this point on...
Tell baraq O bamah to urinate up a rope. You need to shoot first then ask questions later and for Pete's sake, don't leave any witnesses. We've all seen what liberals do when they have witnesses right? Remember Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso?
So the recipe for victory for the Taliban is to make "civilians" tag along, and then they can fire at us with impunity. Wonderful.
October 2009
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Spooling Up in Afghanistan
By Adam J. Hebert
Executive Editor
The expeditionary air war is drawing in more airmen and aircraft for the long haul.
Air Forces Central, the command that oversees US airpower operations in Southwest Asia, reports US aircraft flew some 19,000 close air support sorties over Afghanistan in 2008. This year, AFCENT forces are on pace to nearly double that number.
Expeditionary airpower is in growing demand.
For US military leaders, the war in Afghanistan now has moved to center stage. US goals are clear: Defend Afghan citizens from depredations of insurgents, support civil development, and, in the process, crush a resurgent Taliban and al Qaeda threat.
In Afghanistan, things are heating up and will become deadlier as more US troops pour into the nation. In July, the US upgraded to wing status the 451st Air Expeditionary Group at Kandahar Airfield. It is now commanded by a brigadier general, reflecting the new scope and importance of the operation in southern Afghanistan.
Limited Conditions
The primary mission for the Predators and Reapers is ISR, but the UAVs can immediately switch to an attack role if necessary. Manned aircraft perform most strike missions.
Army Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the top military commander in Afghanistan, recently issued a tactical directive ordering troops to “scrutinize and limit the use of force such as close air support (CAS) against residential compounds and other locations likely to produce civilian casualties.” The directive came on the heels of a series of attacks that killed Afghan civilians in addition to the intended terrorists.
Of particular interest to coalition air forces is McChrystal’s guidance that “use of air-to-ground munitions and indirect fires against residential compounds is only authorized under very limited and prescribed conditions.”
This matters greatly because US and allied forces are battling an enemy that courts civilian casualties for propaganda purposes, deliberately hides among civilians, and frequently fights from residences and towns.
“Basic US self-defense policy has not changed,” said Col. James G. Bitzes, CAOC legal advisor—friendly forces will defend themselves. Bitzes and others said the directive makes clear that the top priority is protecting civilians, without unduly restricting the Air Force.
“I really don’t think it’s different today,” said Holland. “We pretty much hit what we’re aiming for—and it’s vetted.”
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2009/October%202009/1009afghanistan.aspx “Counterinsurgency Leadership in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Beyond” looks to address the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq by examining how leadership has often meant the difference between success and failure, and how it can be improved. Gen. David Petraeus, CENTCOM Commander, gives the keynote address.
Washington, DC : 1 hr. 24 min.
http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2009/09/23/HP/A/23595/Marine+Corps+University+Symposium+on+Counterinsurgency
If air attacks don’t have to ID civilians, then to require it of ground troops is to intentionally ignore their greater exposure and danger.
It’s a crazy policy.
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/new-rules-engagement-issued-nato-forces-gen-mcchrystal
KABUL — Canadian commanders in Afghanistan received new fighting orders on Thursday which will prevent their troops from shooting at the Taliban if there is any risk of civilian casualties, even if it means allowing the enemy to escape.
The stricter rules of engagement were laid down in a “tactical directive” sent to all foreign forces in Afghanistan by U.S. army Gen. Stanley McChrystal who was President Barack Obama’s recent choice to take over the NATO-led war here.
“The guidance to the troops clarifies that citizens are the centre of gravity and that we should do everything to gain their support and we must do everything to avoid civilian casualties,” Col. Greg Julian, the top U.S. military spokesman in Afghanistan, said in an interview at the International Security Assistance Force headquarters in Kabul.
Sincere thanks.
It clearly spells out that our troops should weigh the use of close air support against the (wrongly perceived) public relations gains if we don't.
I thought McChrystal had a screw loose when he stated he strolls through Taliban held ground without body armor.
Now I think he's a menace.
This is why I think we should withdraw.
Enough has been written in this post as to the disgust most of us feel toward the ROE change. I’ll only add this. This was the same crap our military where practicing in the first two and a half years in Iraq for the most part. The pre-surge by army and Marines in al Anbar then the surge country wide put a change to that.
home
Thank you for your post, Ronbo1948.
Believe it or not, ALOT of the folks I talk to here in Central Germany long for a conservative leadership in the USA. Most of the folks in this part of Deutschland are conservative farmers, who are beginning to despise socialism more and more...Their taxes are outrageous, as one old Bavarian farmer told me...”There is no difference between socialism and communism”
God help us all.
No, I don't, and sadly you don't either. Our troops can't be intelligently equated in aim or method to, for example, the Interhamwe, however strongly you feel that all wars were created or are prosecuted equally.
Didn't the allies win in Europe and the Pacific?
Yes, but those victories were not won by killing civilians. If they were, why didn't Germany surrender after the Hamburg firebombing in July of '43, and Japan after the Tokyo firebombing of March '45? Or for that matter, why didn't Great Britain surrender during the Blitz of 1940?
I thought the whole goal of the War on Terror was to eliminate any an all supporters of global terrorism
If we kill civilians in our prosecution of that goal, we'll just wind up with more supporters of global terrorism - hence the present ROE in Afghanistan.
Do yourself a favor, have a look at FM 3-24 (PDF) and familiarize yourself with the subject matter, specifically, sections 7-30 through 7-36, and sections E-5 & E-6.
Sincere thanks.
I think the strategy that Obama seeks is the one that offers the least opportunity for victory. Any display of American Exceptionalism threatens his plan to diminish and demean the U.S.
He’s far more interested in domestic social engineering here at home. Afghanistan is an impediment to his domestic agenda and his unfettered expansion of centralized government. Promoting Afghanistan as the “good” war served him well during the ‘08 campaign, but now that he’s in office, it no longer interests him. It never really did.
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