Posted on 02/06/2008 6:19:32 PM PST by klimeckg
Thomas Paine and the Age of Reason
Thomas Paine is sometimes grouped with the Founding Fathers. Your daily newspaper might reinforce this view with editorials like this:
Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Paine and most of our other patriarchs were at best deists, believing in the unmoved mover of Aristotle, but not the God of the Old and New Testaments.[1]
It would be difficult to name a single one of the Founding Fathers who approved of Paine's Age of Reason, his famous tract attacking religion in general and evangelical Christianity in particular. Even less-than-evangelicals like Benjamin Franklin and the "Unitarians" all denounced Paine's book.
Before Paine published his Age of Reason, he sent a manuscript copy to Benjamin Franklin, seeking his thoughts. Notice Franklin's strong and succinct reply, and keep in mind that those on all sides of the religion question would concede Franklin to be one of the least religious Founders:
I have read your manuscript with some attention. By the argument it contains against a particular Providence, though you allow a general Providence, you strike at the foundations of all religion. For without the belief of a Providence that takes cognizance of, guards, and guides, and may favor particular persons, there is no motive to worship a Deity, to fear his displeasure, or to pray for his protection. I will not enter into any discussion of your principles, though you seem to desire it. At present I shall only give you my opinion that . . . the consequence of printing this piece will be a great deal of odium drawn upon yourself, mischief to you, and no benefit to others. He that spits into the wind, spits in his own face. But were you to succeed, do you imagine any good would be done by it? . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at members.aol.com ...
LDS teachings are that people live beyond the grave and still have agency to make decisions for themselves. Should the ordinance of baptism be performed in their behalf, typically at the request of a descendant, it is still up to the individual to accept the ordinance or reject it. If they are offended in the here after at their descendant performing a charitable act in their behalf, I am sure God will smooth things over in such a case.
Back to the OP, since Romney has suspended his campaign, it is apparent to me that his Mormonism was a factor with respect to the southern conservatives who chose Huckabee over Romney. Huckabee is no conservative so they didn’t vote for him for that reason.
lol. Whitefield rocks! 8~)
Makes me want some of today's Presbyterians to be a Presbyterian. (A certain aging RINO comes to mind.)
Did you know that Ben Franklin was a great fan of Whitefield and went out of his way to hear him on more than one occasion. I hear he marveled at the strength of Whitefield’s voice. He’s not the first place I’ve heard that.
Apparently, Whitefield had a supernaturally gifted volume that could be heard and understood for great distances.
It had nothing to do with politics.
Try Jesus and his confronting the Pharisees.
Then answer my question instead of putting up a straw man.
God does not have to "smooth over" the results of something that does not take place.
“Franklin was correct. Publication of the work did heap scorn upon Thomas Paine. If not for his vehemence against religion (his greatest defect) he would be counted as among the greatest of our founding fathers.”
True. Common Sense was really the only good offering by socialist Paine.
Catholics have this claim that their churches are open to the world 24/7 just in case there's a soul to save. Certainly they look at any Mormon as an opportunity for that.
We attended one of my wife's nephew's baptisms (at his mother's old home church), and there were people coming in and out all the while, doing the stations of the cross, praying, lighting candles ~ all that stuff ~ and the baptism proceeded with the attention of the priest and other religious ~ and it was just like every Catholic church I've ever visited ~ hard to "disinvite" anyone under those conditions.
We need a URL ~ you know, like for "Tonight's antiMormon meeting begins at 7:30 and will include..... be sure to bring your monthly contribution for the coffee fund"
Got anything else that would justify calling him a socialist?
Fundamental flaw with this premise: THE FOUNDERS WERE NOT “DEISTS”.
Sure as hell not as a whole. Seems Franklin is paraded too much as the singular representative for all.
the bishop = didn't want a Mormon "in HIS sanctuary"
sorry if you think this couldn't have happened - but I was the one it happened TO = I'm not relating a hearsay,,,
I didn't say people of other religions weren't welcomed - I said, I, because I was a Mormon, wasn't welcomed. How many of the "other religious" folk in your experience were Mormon?
If you are a MAINE person, I can imagine. French Catholics (thanks largely to Canyada). Placing my bets.
My comment really was more tongue in cheek than anything. I really doubt people in the here after will look unfavorably towards a service done in their behalf out of love and respect. Especially when it was done at the bequest of a descendant.
Yours perhaps, but post 96 sort of sums it up
2) Jefferson didn’t believe that Jesus was the son of God and thought that the virgin birth was a myth. The quote from Jefferson was excerpted so as to destroy his meaning. I posted the entire quote previously. He didn’t think Jesus was anything more than a man; that is not a Christian, although he claimed to be a believer in his ‘philosophy’.
3) Thomas Paine’s belief? OK. He said...”there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]” Hardly one to quote on the deep religious conviction of the Founders.
4) Sure none of the founders fit the STRAWMAN definition of Deist put forward; however Franklin said in his own autobiography that he was a “thorough Deist”.
A. Because when Catholics make a pilgrimage, they get to go to Rome, when Mormons make a pilgrimage, they go to Utah. (BTW, can anyone tell me what Utah Jazz sounds like?)
Thump, thump, thump, pitter, patter, pitter, patter - SQUEEKsqueek
............ SWISH!
Is it important to you to downplay the Christianity of the Founders?
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