The Founding Fathers were Deists, So Is Mitt Romney's Mormonism keeping you from voting for him?

http://members.aol.com/TestOath/deism.htm ^

[klimeckg]

Thomas Paine and the Age of Reason

Thomas Paine is sometimes grouped with the Founding Fathers. Your daily newspaper might reinforce this view with editorials like this:

Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Paine and most of our other patriarchs were at best deists, believing in the unmoved mover of Aristotle, but not the God of the Old and New Testaments.[1]

It would be difficult to name a single one of the Founding Fathers who approved of Paine's Age of Reason, his famous tract attacking religion in general and evangelical Christianity in particular. Even less-than-evangelicals like Benjamin Franklin and the "Unitarians" all denounced Paine's book.

Before Paine published his Age of Reason, he sent a manuscript copy to Benjamin Franklin, seeking his thoughts. Notice Franklin's strong and succinct reply, and keep in mind that those on all sides of the religion question would concede Franklin to be one of the least religious Founders:

I have read your manuscript with some attention. By the argument it contains against a particular Providence, though you allow a general Providence, you strike at the foundations of all religion. For without the belief of a Providence that takes cognizance of, guards, and guides, and may favor particular persons, there is no motive to worship a Deity, to fear his displeasure, or to pray for his protection. I will not enter into any discussion of your principles, though you seem to desire it. At present I shall only give you my opinion that . . . the consequence of printing this piece will be a great deal of odium drawn upon yourself, mischief to you, and no benefit to others. He that spits into the wind, spits in his own face. But were you to succeed, do you imagine any good would be done by it? . . .

[Elsie]

The "are Mormons Christian" argument has been beat to death here, so lets avoid hijacking this thread over it

Why not?

This post was DESIGNED to do just that!

[Elsie]

Where did you get the Muttley pic?

On ANY picure, you can RIGHT click it and get a menu.

Down at the bottom of it will be a line - PROPERTIES.

Click on that and then the address of the pix is seen.

[wrench]

I didn’t realize that Baptist ostracized their family members who leave the Baptist fold. I’ve seen that happen in many religions. It certainly limited to “cults.” It definitely isn’t a teaching or practice in the LDS faith to reject family over faith. Whether it is because a family member leaves the LDS church or join the LDS church and leave their own family.......... Most definately NOT what I have personally witnessed in the instances I am familiar with.

[Elsie]

It made me so angry and embarrassed that the rules were changed to allow that bigotry was allowed on FreeRepublic, that I decided to give Mitt another look, after Thompson dropped out.

Bigotry - the chosen word to try and keep the past of MORMONISM from showing it's face in today's enlightened society.

[Elsie]

That all happened in Indianapolis ~ there's still a building with a big "People's Temple" painted on it that you could see from I-70 right up to "Super 70" (a widening job) came around. I didn't notice it last time I went through naptown.

Dang!

I've not seen it, and I've lived there a REAL long time!

(We have a lady in our church that actually was in JJ's church for a while. Long before he ever went west to SF.)

[Elsie]

 

When the group that is being called a cult is not allowed to disagree based on historical precedence rather than based on their own beliefs, then they are the ones who are being flamed.

 

 

 

Don't criticize?

 

Dallin H. Oaks, Mormon Apostle

[Elsie]

Only problem I see with your way of doing it is that if we do not speak up to correct the misconceptions and lies put out here, more people will believe that which is untrue about our Church.

I agree with you; but what about the truth that is told?

How do you fight THAT?

[Elsie]

 

I wouldn't doubt Huckleberry could be the Anti-Christ.

 

 

 

THESE are the Scriptures that mention Anti-Christ:

NIV 1 John 2:18-29
 18.  Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
 19.  They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
 20.  But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
 21.  I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
 22.  Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.
 23.  No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
 24.  See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
 25.  And this is what he promised us--even eternal life.
 26.  I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
 27.  As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
 28.  And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
 29.  If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

 

NIV 1 John 4:1-3
 1.  Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
 2.  This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
 3.  but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

 

NIV 2 John 1:7
   Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

 

 

[lady lawyer]

“Huckabee is being paid off with promises from McCain.”

My guess is that McCain hasn’t promised him anything. My guess is that Huckabee thinks he has a “ministry” to keep the Mormon out of the White House.

And, people keep commenting about how little money Huckabee has spent. He doesn’t have to spend. There are Evangelical churches all over this country who run regular anti-Mormon classes and seminars. They are his “organization.”

[muawiyah]

Several posts up in that thread I've provided a URL that takes you to a post WWII study of Australian military people held in Japanese POW camps.

I thought a POW's chance of suffering a heart attack or stroke was maybe double that of the average person of the same age without that experience. The Australian POWs suffered those things at 30 times the average rate for people their same age.

[muawiyah]

I do hope you wouldn't have refused Cortes' request to assist in suppressing the Aztec religious practice of cutting living, beating heats out of folks.

There, I've done it ~ shown you that a general statement when you have something quite specific in mind can and does lead to making immoral statements.

So, what you have to do is tell us what it is that anyone has lied about and then tell us what the truth is.

[muawiyah]

Given that the "dead" are, well, "dead", and no longer have any civil rights (in the law)(although copyrights may live on as inherited property) whatever the Mormons want to do with their names is fine. In fact, names can't be copyrighted either ~ if you wanted to name your child McDonald's, or Burger King, you are free to do so and although they'll probably sue you, it's likely you will win.

Still, the folks in the COTFB who were excommunicated by Smith way back in Ohio most likely never find any Temple Work done in their names.

[muawiyah]

It's quite obvious a fair number of Freeper/Supporters have little experience in the area of "someone questioning faith" ~ Frankly I haven't figured out whether this is because they are Provo, Utah Mormons (sufficiently isolated from everybody to feel, well, "isolated"), or Catholics who live in similarly "isolated", maybe even "coistered" communities (not that they would be alone in that).

Some folks appear to strongly resent the thought that religion and politics might be discussed in the same breath ~ others of us can't imagine that such a mix would be questionable.

A lesson ~ religion is relevant to politics for many of us. Another lesson ~ religion is irrelevant to politics for many of us.

No doubt we will continue to have conflict ~ which leads to another lesson ~ conflict is good!

[muawiyah]

I’ve checked with several good authorities on the matter of (who is the AntiChrist) and can now advise you that The Huck ain’t him.

[wrench]

Given that the “dead” are, well, “dead”, and no longer have any civil rights (in the law)(although copyrights may live on as inherited property) whatever the Mormons want to do with their names is fine. In fact, names can’t be copyrighted either ~ if you wanted to name your child McDonald’s, or Burger King, you are free to do so and although they’ll probably sue you, it’s likely you will win...............

They may be dead, but their soul is still present. How would you like someone pissing on your ancestor’s grave? They are dead anyway, what does it matter?

[muawiyah]

And here I thought Catholics are pretty liberal with Baptism ~ they'll do it in the open, out in an Indian village, on a Downtown street, on the prairie under the sky, in day, in night, in storm, in pleasant times, in war, when you're born, when you're dying ~ even Catholic laymen can and do Baptise.

In early colonial times Recollect Friars were frequently martyred in the Ohio Valley for Baptising infants near death. The Indians developed the false belief that the Friars were killing the children with Baptism.

One of the favorite method for killing a Friar was to tie him to a post and burn him slowly.

Now, what's this about Catholics having some sort of restriction on who may attend a Baptism?

[muawiyah]

Gee whiz, I've attended many Evangelical churches over the years and never noticed that any of them had classes in anti-Mormonism.

So, I'm going to ask you ~ just a little favor ~ GIVE US A DOGGONE URL that demonstrates such a thing.

[muawiyah]

I'm pretty sure that the Mormons are not "pissing on the graves" of any of my ancestors ~ too many of them show up in that group Smith excommunicated in Ohio for that.

One modern Mormon relative ran into some difficulty with that ~ there he had names of ancestors and was trying to get the information inserted into the Mormon records and it was rejected.

They know.

Now, as far as "souls" being in existence and maybe floating about judging us ~ my Bible tells me that the "Dead in Christ" are in the grave ~ St. John of Patmos, in fact, describes images of where they rise up and ask "How long oh Lord".

Something other than Mormon Temple rites is on their minds Fur Shur.

Now you may have a different Bible, with different words, that paint a different picture. Maybe God provided you a revelation through the Buddah and his disciples. In that case you'd tell me the "souls" are still floating about, but they're not disembodied ~ they are, in fact, stuck into butterflies and cows, and maybe different people. In that case, too, you'd have to admit the "soul" is busy tending to the immediacy of mortal existence and probably isn't checking up on the Mormons.

[Eva]

Oh, for pete’s sake, you know very well that criticizing specific beliefs of another religion is religious bigotry. We all think that we have a handle on the cart to heaven. The exact same things were said of JFK when he ran for office. I can remember hearing, oh, he’s going to put Rome ahead of the country, Catholics believe that they can get away with anything as long as they go to confession, on and on and on. There were a lot of things to criticize JFK for, but his religion wasn’t one of them.

[muawiyah]

Protestants did have a dispute with JFK over his membership in the Catholic church. It was ecclesiastical in nature, not theological.

The dispute with the Mormons is both ecclesiastical and theological.

Turned out Protestants should have been much more concerned with JFK's daliances with Marilyn Monroe (and dozens of others). The Catholic church was doing all it could to lead him on the right path, but he was definitely in some sort of rebellion.